From rdumain at autodidactproject.org Sat Aug 1 08:24:44 2009 From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 08:24:44 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] =?iso-8859-1?q?Irana_Esperantisto_vizitos_Va=C5=9Dingto?= =?iso-8859-1?q?non?= In-Reply-To: <838073.90868.qm@web1114.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <838073.90868.qm@web1114.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Kiom longe la vizitanto restos en Vasxingtono? Nur unu tagon? At 11:11 PM 7/31/2009, David Dougherty wrote: >Saluton! Behrouz Soroushian, Esperantisto kiu >naski??is en Irano, sed kiu nun lo??as en >Toronto, Kanado, vizitos Va??ingtonon >??i-semajnfine. Li restas en hotelo en Crystal >City. Mi jam aran??is renkonti lin, por montri >al li nian urbon iomete (estas lia unua fojo en >Va??ingtono). Mi renkontos lin ene de la stacio >Federal Triangle, diman??on a duan de A??gusto >je la 10-a matene, ??us ekster la pordo kie oni >enmetas la karton. De tie mi prenos lin al la >Old Post Office Pavillion, kaj al la National >Mall. La resto ni decidos spontane la?? tempo >kaj intereso. Se vi volas anka?? partopreni, vi >estas bonvena. Bonvolu voki min per mia po??telefono 240-671-638 >6 a?? sendi al mi retpo??ton. Ni anka?? kapablos >renkonti??i poste se vi deziras. David Dougherty >----------------------- Hello! Behrouz >Soroushian, an Esperantist who was born in Iran, >but currently living in Toronto, Canada, will be >visiting Washington this weekend. He's staying >at a hotel in Crystal City. I've already >arranged to meet with him, to show him our city >a little bit (this is his first time in >Washington). I will meet him inside Federal >Triangle Metro Station just outside the gate >where you put your farecard, Sunday August 2nd >at 10:00 AM. From there I will take him to the >Old Post Office Pavillion, and from there to the >National Mall. We'll decide the rest depending >on what he wants, time, and his interest. >Anybody who wants to join us is welcome. Please >call me on my cell phone 240-671-6386, or send >me an e-mail. You may also meet up with us later >if you want. David Dougherty >_______________________________________________ >Membroj mailing list >Membroj at esperantosocieto.org >http://esperantosocieto.org/mailman/listinfo/membroj_esperantosocieto.org From rdumain at autodidactproject.org Mon Aug 3 18:46:28 2009 From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 18:46:28 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] =?iso-8859-1?q?Irana_Esperantisto_vizitos_Va=C5=9Dingto?= =?iso-8859-1?q?non?= In-Reply-To: <838073.90868.qm@web1114.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <838073.90868.qm@web1114.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Cxu Behrouz Soroushian ankorau restas en Vasxiungtono, au cxu li jam foriris? Mi rekonas lian nomon de la yahoo-grupo per-esperanto-literaturo. At 11:11 PM 7/31/2009, David Dougherty wrote: >Saluton! Behrouz Soroushian, Esperantisto kiu >naski??is en Irano, sed kiu nun lo??as en >Toronto, Kanado, vizitos Va??ingtonon >??i-semajnfine. Li restas en hotelo en Crystal >City. Mi jam aran??is renkonti lin, por montri >al li nian urbon iomete (estas lia unua fojo en >Va??ingtono). Mi renkontos lin ene de la stacio >Federal Triangle, diman??on a duan de A??gusto >je la 10-a matene, ??us ekster la pordo kie oni >enmetas la karton. De tie mi prenos lin al la >Old Post Office Pavillion, kaj al la National >Mall. La resto ni decidos spontane la?? tempo >kaj intereso. Se vi volas anka?? partopreni, vi >estas bonvena. Bonvolu voki min per mia >po??telefono 240-671-6386 a?? sendi al mi >retpo??ton. Ni anka?? kapablos renkonti??i poste >se vi deziras. David Dougherty >----------------------- Hello! Behrouz >Soroushian, an Esperantist who was born in Iran, >but currently living in Toronto, Canada, will be >visiting Washington this weekend. He's staying >at a hotel in Crystal City. I've already >arranged to meet with him, to show him our city >a little bit (this is his first time in >Washington). I will meet him inside Federal >Triangle Metro Station just outside the gate >where you put your farecard, Sunday August 2nd >at 10:00 AM. From there I will take him to the >Old Post Office Pavillion, and from there to the >National Mall. We'll decide the rest depending >on what he wants, time, and his interest. >Anybody who wants to join us is welcome. Please >call me on my cell phone 240-671-6386, or send >me an e-mail. You may also meet up with us later if you want. David Dougherty From rdumain at autodidactproject.org Mon Aug 3 12:33:10 2009 From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 12:33:10 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] "Social Theory" ["Socia Teorio"] by [de] Sarah Manguso Message-ID: http://promene.wordpress.com/2009/06/11/mortpuno-por-lingvokreado/ Here is a curious poem I chanced upon on the blog of an Esperanto-speaking philosopher, originally in English but here translated into Esperanto. English-speakers may find the original of interest, and Esperanto-speakers who don't know English will learn something about what goes on in American poetry that I didn't know. The blogger Dirk Bindmann noted the line about the death penalty for the creation of new languages, but I'm interested in "social theory" as the subject of a poem. Jen kurioza poemo kiun mi hazarde trovis cxe blogo de Esperantisto-filozofo, originale anglalingva poemo sed jen tradukita Esperanten. Anglaparolantoj eble trovos la originalan interesa, kaj Esperantistoj kiuj ne komprenas la anglan lernos ion novan pri aktivado en Usona poezio kion mi mem ne konas. La bloganto Dirk Bindmann notis la verson pri mortpuno al lingvokreantoj, sed interesas min "socia teorio" kiel temo de poemo. From dave at daviddougherty.net Sun Aug 9 10:51:28 2009 From: dave at daviddougherty.net (David Dougherty) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 07:51:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Membroj] =?utf-8?q?Speciala_kafkuni=C4=9Do/Special_coffee_get-to?= =?utf-8?q?gether?= Message-ID: <737108.64002.qm@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> La Esperanto-Societo de Va?ingtono havos specialan renkonti?on por diskuti la bu?eton de la venontjara nacia kongreso, kiu okazos en nia urbo. Ni havos kafkuni?on tiucele, je la 2-a ptm ?e Cosi en Kapitolo-Monto, diman?e la 16-an de a?gusto. Jen la ekzakta loko se vi bezonas ?in: http://nextel.boingo.com/search.html?pgt=results&lid=5030 ------------------------------------------ The Esperanto Society of Washington will have a special meeting to discuss the budget of next year's congress, which will be happening in our city. We will have a coffee meeting for this purpose, at 2:00 PM at Cosi on Capitol Hill, on Sunday August 16th. Here's the exact location if you need it: http://nextel.boingo.com/search.html?pgt=results&lid=5030 From volcheck at acm.org Thu Aug 13 00:11:30 2009 From: volcheck at acm.org (Emil Volcheck) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 00:11:30 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] Eo ligilo por Doodle Message-ID: Jen ligilo por rekte atingi Doodle en Esperanta versio: http://doodle.com/main.html?locale=eo Vershajne vi scias la ligilo por Google: http://www.google.com/intl/eo/ --Emil -- Emil Volcheck volcheck at acm.org http://EmilVolcheck.com/ From rdumain at autodidactproject.org Thu Aug 13 09:47:33 2009 From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:47:33 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] sociology of IALs Message-ID: Most of this article, which treats Esperanto and other constructed languages extensively, is available on google books: Sakaguchi, Alicja. "Towards a Clarification of the Function and Status of International Planned Languages," in Status and Function of Languages and Language Varieties, Ulrich Ammon. Berlin; New York: W. de Gruyter, 1989, pp. 399-442. (From the Eleventh World Congress of Sociology of the International Sociological Association in New Delhi, 18-23 Aug. 1986.) http://books.google.com/books?id=geh261xgI8sC&dq=proudhon+%22universal+language%22&source=gbs_navlinks_s -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rdumain at autodidactproject.org Thu Aug 13 10:29:59 2009 From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:29:59 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] anarchism & universal languages (1): Stephen Pearl Andrews Message-ID: While a bored teenager, I taught myself Esperanto and read extensively on the history of the international language movement. I read Mario Pei and other books in English, Drezen and other books in Esperanto, and some of Monnerot-Dumaine in French. But after 40 years, my memory is not so good. Also, back then I never considered the ideological history and political movements intersecting the quest for a universal language. Of course, I knew about the purposes of the philosophical languages of the 17th and 18th centuries (I knew, as my English teacher did not, the nature of the parody of this quest in Gulliver's Travels). I knew about Zamenhof's homanarismo, and about the workers' Esperanto movement, though back then, not much in detail about the latter. And while I have learned much since, I have not systematically pursued every thread of this history as I might have. I noticed many years ago, as I collected material from the dustbins of the Esperanto past, of an affinity for Esperanto on the part of anarchism (and comparable movements of the ineffectual far left such as the Socialist Labor Party, which published a number of pamphlets and bulletins in Esperanto), reflected not only in the Sennacieca Asocio Tutmonda (SAT), but in anarchist movements in China, Japan, and elsewhere. While I figured that there was a pattern to be found here and a reason for it, I never systematically investigated it. (It's important here as well as in general to distinguish anarchism from most currents of Marxism and Communism, which is key to an explanation, but I won't attempt that here. Anarchism also has right wing as well as left wing tendencies.) But it also never occurred to me that there is a whole history here broader and older than the Esperanto movement. The quest for an international language among anarchists and quasi-anarchists predates the Esperanto movement. Maybe I should have known this long ago, but I find myself surprised to have just discovered it. This history goes at least as far back as Proudhon, who was ridiculed by Marx. When I find the details I will document them. But there is more to the history, including the invention of languages such as Alwato, predating Esperanto! James J. Martin's Men Against the State, Chapter VI: Heralds of the Transition to Philosophical Egoism II, section 4: Stephen Pearl Andrews, Social Philosopher. See: http://tmh.floonet.net/articles/matschap6.shtml From footnote 111: For Andrews' universal language, and his investigations into the meaning of words, see his following works: Primary Grammar of Alwato (New York, 1877), Primary Synopsis of Universology and Alwato (New York, 1877), The Alphabet of Philosophy (New York, 1881); Ideological Etymology- or a New Method in the Study of Words (New York, 1881), The One Alphabet for the Whole World (New York, 1881). And some more descriptive material on Andrews, which claims another linguistic invention of Andrews, Tikiwa, from a blog: http://libertarian-labyrinth.blogspot.com/2007_01_01_archive.html And the ever-helpful Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Pearl_Andrews And you can even download Andrews' book The Primary Synopsis of Universology and Alwato: The New Scientific Universal Language from google books. As to what I think of all this, I'll only say: I just report the news. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rdumain at autodidactproject.org Fri Aug 14 14:52:41 2009 From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:52:41 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] ideologies of conlangers & the international language movement Message-ID: Hopefully, you'll forgive my ruminations on specialized topics, such as my recent post on anarchism and Esperanto. I have cause to write in English or Esperanto, and I don't want to send my English posts to international Esperanto groups, so I send my English language interventions here or post them on my gxirafo blog. There are Esperantists in the DC area interested in this stuff, so I don't feel too guilty. I don't remember how I got onto this, but recently stumbling onto various references to the quest for an international language in the anarchist movement, predating the existence of Esperanto and even Volapuk, got to me to thinking. In the past, I would begin within the history of the Esperanto movement, or in the interlinguistics literature generally, and move outward to various political and ideological tendencies within these enterprises. But I've also approached the matter from the opposite direction; for example, the history of working class education and autodidacticism includes the role of Esperanto, and individuals who were prominent in both, such as Mark Starr, whom a few of you will remember. I think, though, that one logically organizes one's material differently when one examines, for example, the role of Esperanto and other artificial languages within the anarchist movement, and anarchism within the Esperanto movement. One could say the same about socialism, feminism, science, philosophy, etc. I've accumulated pieces of information on most of these topics over the decades, but I don't believe I ever thought systematically about a possible difference between these two approaches. The philosophical languages of the 17th and 18th centuries comprise a world unto itself, about which there is an abundant scholarly literature. There may still be something left to say about this subject matter, but it hasn't been neglected. Then there is the serious thrust for an international language gaining intensity in the 19th century. This has also been amply documented in histories of the international language movement. Still, in the English language literature I've seen over the decades (and my memory may be lapsing), the various ideological currents do not stand out for me. Again, looking at the interest in international languages among anarchists predating the appearance of Esperanto got me to thinking about this. The need was obviously felt in various quarters of society including the scientific community. I remember reading, at the same time I learned Esperanto four decades ago, about the American Philosophical Society's interest in a constructed language about the time Esperanto came on the scene. Still, I can't recall a more detailed picture of what factions of society were interested and to what purpose. This story continues into the 20th century, and I would mark another turning point with the beginning or end of World War II. The world political and linguistic order that followed would mark another distinct period. Constructed languages other than Esperanto continued to be the objects of creators and hobbyists and the handfuls of scholars interested in the subject matter. This was the time of Mario Pei and the International Language Review. Now I would say this is the era of the conlangers. I'm not sure when this begins or when it can be marked off from what I remember back in the 1960s. The Internet has certainly accelerated the phenomenon. Also, the realm of science fiction and fantasy, which already had people interested in this stuff decades ago thanks to Tolkein, and more recently, thanks to Star Trek. I can't be certain whether one could say there's a generational turnover involved, but I'm guessing there has occurred a qualitative change somewhere along the line. Though I've met conlangers, I'm not part of the conlanger subculture. My last intersection with it was in the late 1980s when I encountered the Lojban group in the DC area (headquartered in Vienna, VA). And this is when my interest in the ideological dimension was piqued. Ostensibly Loglan/Lojban was invented to test the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, an enterprise I consider rather dubious, but I was intrigued by this group as an ideological subculture, whose real properties lay beneath the surface of its rationalism and conscious self-understanding. I lost track of the Lojbanists just before I, and they, entered the Internet world. In more recent years I've engaged in documenting the conlanger world and interlinguistics online, at least to the point of compiling bibliographies or web guides, mainly: Esperanto & Interlinguistics Study Guide / Esperanto-Gvidilo (kun interlingvistiko) Philosophical and Universal Languages, 1600-1800, and Related Themes: Selected Bibliography Early today I uploaded a classic work on the subject: A Short History of the International Language Movement by Albert L?on Gu?rard (1922) . . . which I salvaged from an obscure corner of the Internet. But I'm still not up on the conlanger subculture, and my only real interest is from a philosophical and sociological viewpoint. Now enter Arika Okrent's new book, which I mentioned here and blogged about: In the Land of Invented Languages I've still not read it, but I've heard and read interviews and book reviews, and I have a general idea what's in it. This is a popular book, and it seems to have been quite successful in being pitched to a mass (relatively speaking) audience. Okrent indeed touches on the ideological aspects, which are in some cases central to the existence of certain conlangs. The most striking example that comes to mind is L?adan, a language specifically designed to express the nuances of the alleged female experience of the world. I took a brief look at a L?adan web site, but not long enough to gain much of a perspective on it. A linguistic subculture such as this is just begging for ideological and sociological analysis. My memory is not so great, I may be wrong, but I have the impression that Okrent does not delve into this dimension of the conlang world too deeply. It seems to me that this is the next place to go, and not just for one conlang, but for a broad swath of conlangs and conlang hobbyists, and ultimately connecting this up with a larger work looking at the ideological contours of concern with a universal language in previous eras. >From: Ralph Dumain >Sender: ehist at yahoogroups.com >Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:54:26 -0400 >Subject: [ehist] ideologio & interlingvistiko >Reply-To: ehist at yahoogroups.com > >Mi plejparte ekzamenas interlingvistikon kaj la >historion de la movado por universala lingvo en >la lingvoj angla kaj Esperanto. Jen miaj precipaj retgvidiloj: > ><http://www.autodidactproject.org/guidespo.html>Esperanto > >& Interlinguistics Study Guide / Esperanto-Gvidilo (kun interlingvistiko) > ><http://www.autodidactproject.org/bib/lg-univ-bib1.html>Philosophical > >and Universal Languages, 1600-1800, and Related Themes: Selected Bibliography > >Notu ankau, ke mi jxus aldonis cxi tiun klasikan verkon: > ><http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/guerard1.html>A > >Short History of the International Language Movement by Albert L?on Gu?rard > >Cetere, kvankam cxi tiun temon plej interesas >interlingvistoj, Esperantistoj, kaj hobiistoj >("conlangers"), estas nova populara libro pri la >temo kiu gajnas multan atenton en la amaskomunikiloj. Notu mian blogeron: > ><http://gxirafo.blogspot.com/2009/06/in-land-of-invented-languages.html>In > >the Land of Invented Languages > >pri libro de Arika Okrent. > >Aldone al la tradicie eldonita literaturo, >ekzistas multe da tia kaj nova materialo >interrete. Nu, kurioze estas, ke malgrau la >abundo de materialo pri la lingva dimensio de la >diversaj artefaritaj lingvoj, sxajne mankas >alispeca historia analizado. Mi klarigu. >Kompreneble, estas abunda literaturo pri diversaj >filozofiaj vidpunktoj pri la konstruado de >lingvoj. Estas ja studoj de la filozofiaj lingvoj >de Wilkins, ktp., kaj aktualaj logikaj kaj >filozofiaj lingvoprojektoj kiaj Logban/Lojban. >Estas studoj pri la sociologio de la >Esperanto-movado, kaj ideologiaj facetoj de gxia >historio, ekz. la laborista movado, marksismo, >anarkiismo, pacismo, homaranismo, ktp. Gxenerale >oni agnoskas la utopiisman motivon de artefaritaj >lingvoj. Mi nebule memoras la verkojn de Drezen >kaj Spiridovic, kiujn mi devos reviziti. La verko >de Okrent ja pritraktas ideologiajn facetojn de >inventitaj lingvoj, ekz. L?adan, lingvo kiu >lauraporte respegulas la vidpunkton de virinoj. > >Tamen, sxajnas al mi ke mankas historia, sistema >kaj analiza superrigardo de la interago de la >tiel-nomita planlingva movado kun diversaj aliaj >filozofiaj, ideologiaj, kaj politikaj tendencoj >(krom verkoj pri la filozofiaj lingvoj kaj la >scienca revolucio kaj frumoderna filozofio). Oni >povus analizi el la starpunktoj de la >planlingvanoj mem, au el starpunktoj de aliaj >movadoj kaj interesoj, ekz. anarkiismo, feminismo, filozofio, ktp. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rdumain at autodidactproject.org Tue Aug 18 12:45:38 2009 From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:45:38 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] =?iso-8859-1?q?_Re=3A__Speciala_kafkuni=C4=9Do/Special_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?coffee_get-to_gether?= In-Reply-To: <737108.64002.qm@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <737108.64002.qm@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Nu, kio rezultis el cxi tiu kunsido? Cxu D-ro Lieberman kunlaboros en arangxoj kiel en 1977 kaj 1987? Cxu oni plu diskutis la enhavon de la programo? Aliteme, cxi-jare okazas la 150-a datreveno de la naskigxo de Zamenhof. Mi havas nenian ideon pri memoreventoj rilate al cxi tiu afero. Mi supozas ke okazis/okazos eventoj en Europo. Kiel en Usono ni povos ekspluati cxi tiun okazon? At 10:51 AM 8/9/2009, David Dougherty wrote: >La Esperanto-Societo de Va??ingtono havos >specialan renkonti??on por diskuti la bu??eton >de la venontjara nacia kongreso, kiu okazos en >nia urbo. Ni havos kafkuni??on tiucele, je la >2-a ptm ??e Cosi en Kapitolo-Monto, diman??e la >16-an de a??gusto. Jen la ekzakta loko se vi >bezonas ??in: >http://nextel.boingo.com/search.html?pgt=results&lid=5030 >------------------------------------------ The >Esperanto Society of Washington will have a >special meeting to discuss the budget of next >year's congress, which will be happening in our >city. We will have a coffee meeting for this >purpose, at 2:00 PM at Cosi on Capitol Hill, on >Sunday August 16th. Here's the exact location if >you need it: http://nextel.boingo.com/search.html?pgt=results&lid=5030 From rdumain at autodidactproject.org Tue Aug 18 13:31:45 2009 From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:31:45 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] Zamenhof, Jews, and the Making of Esperanto Message-ID: From the ELNA site. Would anyone from the DC area attend this event? http://esperanto-usa.org/en/content/zamenhof-jews-and-making-esperanto Zamenhof, Jews, and the Making of Esperanto I would love to attend this program, but it's a bit of a schlep from north Jersey. The Spring 2009 issue of Pakn Treger, published by the National Yiddish Book Center, in Amherst, MA, has listed the following in its calendar: Sunday, October 25th - Talk The Universal Language: Zamenhof, Jews and the Making of Esperanto Esther Schor, author, poet, and professor of English at Princeton University explores the Esperanto movement, invented by L.L. Zemenhof, in 1887, as a modern, emancipated Jew's answer to an ancient quandary; how might language itself be used to promote understanding among nations and peoples? 2:00 p.m. Cost: $6 www.yiddishbookcenter.org gives directions, other information. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From quillpower at cox.net Tue Aug 18 14:31:06 2009 From: quillpower at cox.net (quillpower at cox.net) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:31:06 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] Zamenhof, Jews, and the Making of Esperanto Message-ID: <380-22009821818316706@M2W025.mail2web.com> It's more than a bit of a schlep from here to Amherst! I'd still consider making the sxlepego, though. Of course Steve Brewer lives and works in Amherst. Original Message: ----------------- From: Ralph Dumain rdumain at autodidactproject.org Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:31:45 -0400 To: membroj at esperantosocieto.org Subject: [Membroj] Zamenhof, Jews, and the Making of Esperanto From the ELNA site. Would anyone from the DC area attend this event? http://esperanto-usa.org/en/content/zamenhof-jews-and-making-esperanto Zamenhof, Jews, and the Making of Esperanto I would love to attend this program, but it's a bit of a schlep from north Jersey. The Spring 2009 issue of Pakn Treger, published by the National Yiddish Book Center, in Amherst, MA, has listed the following in its calendar: Sunday, October 25th - Talk The Universal Language: Zamenhof, Jews and the Making of Esperanto Esther Schor, author, poet, and professor of English at Princeton University explores the Esperanto movement, invented by L.L. Zemenhof, in 1887, as a modern, emancipated Jew's answer to an ancient quandary; how might language itself be used to promote understanding among nations and peoples? 2:00 p.m. Cost: $6 www.yiddishbookcenter.org gives directions, other information. -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com ? What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint From quillpower at cox.net Tue Aug 18 14:37:10 2009 From: quillpower at cox.net (quillpower at cox.net) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:37:10 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] Re: Speciala kafkuniĝo/Special coffee get-to gether Message-ID: <380-220098218183710795@M2W037.mail2web.com> Ni diskutis diversajn detalojn pri la LK -- kostoj kaj programeroj. Jes, Jim Lieberman helpas, precipe pri la kongresejo kaj bankedo. Dankon pro la memorigo pri la 150-a datreveno de LLZ. Ni jam havis bankedon frue cxijare, sed eble ni konsideru alian eventon jarfine pro tio, kvankam cxiam estas malfacile okazigi eventon dum la okupata festa sezono. Do, mi invitas sugestojn. Cxu alia Z-bankedo en decembro? Alispeca evento por la publiko? Kia? Original Message: ----------------- From: Ralph Dumain rdumain at autodidactproject.org Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:45:38 -0400 To: dave at daviddougherty.net, membroj at esperantosocieto.org Subject: [Membroj] Re: Speciala kafkuni??o/Special coffee get-to gether Nu, kio rezultis el cxi tiu kunsido? Cxu D-ro Lieberman kunlaboros en arangxoj kiel en 1977 kaj 1987? Cxu oni plu diskutis la enhavon de la programo? Aliteme, cxi-jare okazas la 150-a datreveno de la naskigxo de Zamenhof. Mi havas nenian ideon pri memoreventoj rilate al cxi tiu afero. Mi supozas ke okazis/okazos eventoj en Europo. Kiel en Usono ni povos ekspluati cxi tiun okazon? At 10:51 AM 8/9/2009, David Dougherty wrote: >La Esperanto-Societo de Va??ingtono havos >specialan renkonti??on por diskuti la bu??eton >de la venontjara nacia kongreso, kiu okazos en >nia urbo. Ni havos kafkuni??on tiucele, je la >2-a ptm ??e Cosi en Kapitolo-Monto, diman??e la >16-an de a??gusto. Jen la ekzakta loko se vi >bezonas ??in: >http://nextel.boingo.com/search.html?pgt=results&lid=5030 >------------------------------------------ The >Esperanto Society of Washington will have a >special meeting to discuss the budget of next >year's congress, which will be happening in our >city. We will have a coffee meeting for this >purpose, at 2:00 PM at Cosi on Capitol Hill, on >Sunday August 16th. Here's the exact location if >you need it: http://nextel.boingo.com/search.html?pgt=results&lid=5030 _______________________________________________ Membroj mailing list Membroj at esperantosocieto.org http://esperantosocieto.org/mailman/listinfo/membroj_esperantosocieto.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web From rdumain at autodidactproject.org Tue Aug 18 16:32:06 2009 From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:32:06 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] Sholem Aleichem & Zamenhof Message-ID: A childhood friend of mine, with whom I learned Esperanto as teenagers, pointed out to me that this is also Sholem Aleichem's sequicentennial. Wikipedia lists his birthdate as follows: Sholem Aleichem, (Yiddish: , Russian: - , Ukrainian: - ; March 2 [O.S. February 18] 1859 ? May 13, 1916) was the pen name of Sholem Naumovich Rabinovich . . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sholem_Aleichem Note that his life span almost exactly matches Zamenhof's (1859-1917). Other comparisons, as well as the possibility of capitalizing on both these birthdays at once, are worth pondering. Too bad there is no Wikipedia entry for Sholem Aleichem in Esperanto. From quillpower at cox.net Tue Aug 18 17:36:21 2009 From: quillpower at cox.net (quillpower at cox.net) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:36:21 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] Sholem Aleichem & Zamenhof Message-ID: <380-220098218213621307@M2W043.mail2web.com> Again, thanks for the idea. Two kindred (and contemporary) spirits fiddling on the roof! Also, interesting observation: "Too bad there is no Wikipedia entry for Sholem Aleichem in Esperanto." I can't think of anyone better to fill that gap than you, Ralph! Original Message: ----------------- From: Ralph Dumain rdumain at autodidactproject.org Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:32:06 -0400 To: membroj at esperantosocieto.org Subject: [Membroj] Sholem Aleichem & Zamenhof A childhood friend of mine, with whom I learned Esperanto as teenagers, pointed out to me that this is also Sholem Aleichem's sequicentennial. Wikipedia lists his birthdate as follows: Sholem Aleichem, (Yiddish: , Russian: - , Ukrainian: - ; March 2 [O.S. February 18] 1859 ? May 13, 1916) was the pen name of Sholem Naumovich Rabinovich . . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sholem_Aleichem Note that his life span almost exactly matches Zamenhof's (1859-1917). Other comparisons, as well as the possibility of capitalizing on both these birthdays at once, are worth pondering. Too bad there is no Wikipedia entry for Sholem Aleichem in Esperanto. _______________________________________________ Membroj mailing list Membroj at esperantosocieto.org http://esperantosocieto.org/mailman/listinfo/membroj_esperantosocieto.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com ? What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint From rdumain at autodidactproject.org Tue Aug 18 18:37:41 2009 From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:37:41 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] Sholem Aleichem & Zamenhof In-Reply-To: <380-220098218213621307@M2W043.mail2web.com> References: <380-220098218213621307@M2W043.mail2web.com> Message-ID: There are a few worse things than "Fiddler on the Roof", I guess. There's "Yentl". Which reminds me of a true story about Barbara Streisand filming at a building on Manhattan's Upper West Side I used to stay at, also when Streisand was filming there. It's about a Holocaust survivor who survived Hitler but not Streisand. I don't like writing Wikipedia entries, let alone translating them. Here's a news article that mentions both Zamenhof and Shalom Aleichem: "It?s a Small World" Albert Kahn?s 100-year-old photography project brought humanity into focus By Mark Cohen | 10:58 am January 8, 2009, Tablet http://www.tabletmag.com/arts-and-culture/755/it%E2%80%99s-a-small-world/ I detest the author's slur on Jewish internationalism, but I guess that's part of the prevailing ideology. There are Esperanto translations of at least three works by S^alom Alejh^em: Al iuj egale (1948) Cxe doktoro (1931) La gimnazio (eldonoj 1924, 1929, 1988) There could be more in the magazines, for all I know. But I can't find any Esperanto translations online. In any case, I'm working on contacting a couple of secular Jewish organizations in the area to see what interest I can drum up. Not to say one should limit oneself to Jewish historical and cultural interests, but that's where I'm starting. At 05:36 PM 8/18/2009, quillpower at cox.net wrote: >Again, thanks for the idea. Two kindred (and contemporary) spirits >fiddling on the roof! > >Also, interesting observation: "Too bad there is no Wikipedia entry for >Sholem Aleichem in Esperanto." I can't think of anyone better to fill that >gap than you, Ralph! > >Original Message: >----------------- >From: Ralph Dumain rdumain at autodidactproject.org >Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:32:06 -0400 >To: membroj at esperantosocieto.org >Subject: [Membroj] Sholem Aleichem & Zamenhof > > >A childhood friend of mine, with whom I learned >Esperanto as teenagers, pointed out to me that >this is also Sholem Aleichem's sequicentennial. > >Wikipedia lists his birthdate as follows: > >Sholem Aleichem, (Yiddish: , Russian: - , >Ukrainian: - ; March 2 [O.S. February 18] 1859 ? >May 13, 1916) was the pen name of Sholem Naumovich Rabinovich . . . > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sholem_Aleichem > >Note that his life span almost exactly matches Zamenhof's (1859-1917). > >Other comparisons, as well as the possibility of >capitalizing on both these birthdays at once, are worth pondering. > >Too bad there is no Wikipedia entry for Sholem Aleichem in Esperanto. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rdumain at autodidactproject.org Sat Aug 22 03:36:20 2009 From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 03:36:20 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] Newts & the international language Message-ID: In my junior year of high school 40 years ago I had an eccentric English teacher who ignored the standard curriculum and taught whatever he wanted to. So he taught a novel nobody ever heard of called War with the Newts (1936) by Czech author Karel Capek, creator of the concept and our word "robot" (in the play R.U.R.: Rossum's Universal Robots, 1921). It's a terrific dark satire of the end of the world, mocking the news, the fads, trends, politics, culture, and everyday life of society blindly following its trivial pursuits and myopic perspectives as civilization teeters on the brink of destruction, a theme that ought to resonate today as it did in the 1930s. Book Two of this novel, an excerpt of which is now on my site, is written with running footnotes from page to page, such that the main narrative is constantly being broken up by footnotes that run for pages at a time, a technique which highlights both the fragmented experience of modern life and the futile attempts to come to terms with it. The novel centers around the discovery of a hitherto unknown, intelligent species of salamander--the newts--that is then incorporated into human civilization and penetrates every aspect of culture, eventually perpetrating an apocalyptic civilizational crisis (which also occurred in R.U.R.). Well, by the time I had read this, I had already taught myself Esperanto a couple of years earlier, and in the same school year I translated Sandor Szathmari's short story "Vincenzo" from Esperanto into English as a project for the same English class (got an "A"): http://www.autodidactproject.org/my/vincent.html Among many many other social and cultural trends, Capek satirized one trend that had surfaced in popular culture, the quest for a universal language and the habit of constantly inventing new ones. Naturally, I noted his references to Esperanto, Basic English, and the language problem. I photocopied the relevant section of Book Two many years ago and am now making it available on the web: War with the Newts (Excerpt on the Language Problem) by Karel C^apek http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/newts-esperanto.html _________________________________________________ "Fascism has awakened a sleeping world to the realities of the irrational, mystical character structure of the people of the world." -- Wilhelm Reich -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rdumain at autodidactproject.org Mon Aug 24 10:08:22 2009 From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:08:22 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] =?utf-8?q?=C5=9Calom_Alej=C4=A5em_=26_Zamenhof?= Message-ID: <4A929ED6.4020907@autodidactproject.org> Denove pri ?alom Alej?em (1859.03.02 [anta?a kalendaro: 1859.02.18] - 1916.05.13]), kies vivoda?ro preska? koincidas kun tio de Zamenhof: mi ankora? ne sukcesis trovi venontajn eventojn en Va?ingtono a? Usono entute, kaj ne sukcesis interesi instancoj en Va?ingtono kiu interesi?us pri la kombinita temo de Zamenhof kaj ?alom Alej?em. Tamen, por la okazo mi enretigis la jenan eldona?on: ?alom-Alej?em. /?e Doktoro: Monologo/. El hebrea [fakte jida] lingvo esperantigis Josef Rabinovic?Tajc. Jerusalemo, Erec-Izrael, Palestino, 1931. 12 p. http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/sholem-aleichem-espo1.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rdumain at autodidactproject.org Mon Aug 24 10:54:27 2009 From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:54:27 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] =?utf-8?q?Tekstoj_=C4=89e_A=C5=ADstria_Nacia_Biblioteko?= Message-ID: <4A92A9A3.5040100@autodidactproject.org> La Internacia Esperanto-Muzeo en Vieno estis starigita frue en la 20-a jarcento kiel instanco de la A?stria Nacia Biblioteko. La katalogo de la Esperanto-kolekto estas enkomputiligita, kaj oni povas ser?i ?in per Esperanta interfaco same kiel la germana (la formatoj ne estas tute identaj) per ser?ilo TROVANTO. Jen: http://aleph.onb.ac.at/F?func=file&file_name=login&local_base=ESPERANTO Nu, se oni ne transiras al la Esperanta interfaco, oni trovos ?e kelkaj dokumentoj datumeron germanlingve: Externer Link Dateinamenerweiterung: urlVolltext Temas pri la plena teksto de la koncerna libro. Mi ?us eltrovis tion anta? kelkaj tagoj. Post interkomuniko kun la bibliotekisto, mi lernis kie trovi la tutan liston de haveblaj tekstoj: *Fr?hdrucke des Esperanto* http://www.onb.ac.at/sammlungen/plansprachen/fruehdrucke.htm La enretigitaj tekstoj trovi?as en formato PNG. Oni povas legi ilin diversaspekte. Temas evidente pri IMAGOJ de la koncernaj tekstoj, ne la tekstoj en legebla tekstoformato (PDF, ktp.) Do se oni volus savi tekston ?e propra komputoro, oni devus savi la imagon de ?iu individua pa?o. Se vi havus ta?gan softvaron, vi povus konverti la imagojn al alia formato. Mankas la mi PDF-fara softvaro. Notu, ke la skanitaj libroj ampleksas la jarojn 1887-1900. Enestas multaj verkoj de Zamenhof; anka? multaj fruaj verkoj pri Esperanto kaj planlingvoj. Estas anka? multaj beletraj verkoj, plejparte tradukoj sed anka? kelkaj originalaj. Inter la tradukitaj a?toroj estas Beaumarchais, Byron, Homer, K.R. (/Renaskita Manfred/), Lermontov, Pu?kin, Shakespeare, Tolstoj. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: f-tn-link.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 772 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rdumain at autodidactproject.org Mon Aug 24 16:34:26 2009 From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:34:26 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] ideologies of conlangers & the international language movement (2) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Since my last rant on the subject I've been diving into my dust-covered collection on Esperanto and interlinguistics, which hasn't been substantially updated, or perused, for some years. I have to modify my impressions to some extent, but there are still probably more stories to be told. While I have Monnerot-Dumaine (1960) in French, and while there is substantial literature in German and Russian, and other languages, I'm confining my remarks to what is available in English and Esperanto. First, I'm going to use this sloppy periodization of constructed languages for purposes of characterizing the literature: (1) Ancient to medieval, with emphasis on the religious and mystical; (2) early modern era, the scientific revolution & early modern philosophy, with emphasis on science and logic (Descartes, Leibniz, Wilkins, Dalgarno, etc.) (3) the French Enlightenment; (4) the 19th century prior to Volapuk; (5) the birth of real movements: Volapuk, Esperanto, etc. (6) international language movements in the 20th century; (7) rebirth of philosophical or logical a priori languages for purposes of research and experimentation (Loglan, 1960); (8) contemporary conlanging (sci fi, fantasy, gaming, aesthetic, philosophical & aesthetic interests). Note that (2) and (3) pretty much go together, and merge in some studies with (1) or (4). (4) goes with (5) and (6). (8) involves concerns which are also very much part of the history spanning (1)-(7). Concentrating attention on the concern with an history of constructed languages, I find some works more or less interesting now that I did when I read them decades ago. Also, I'm less interested in the exotic minutiae of various languages and the texts that concentrate strictly on linguistic comparisons than I am in the big historical picture--the big ideas and the social history. For example, back in the 1960s, the most readily available introduction to the subject in English was Mario Pei's One Language for the World, which contains a section on the exotica of constructed languages as part of a larger survey and apologetics for the subject. But I don't find this so interesting for my purposes now. Of the books published (original or translated) in English since 1980, I'd say the three of greatest general interest for the general reader are: Eco, Umberto. The Search for the Perfect Language; translated by James Fentress. (Ricerca della lingua perfetta nella cultura europea) Oxford, UK; Cambridge, MA: Blackwell, 1995. Substantial sections readable via google books. Large, J. A. The Artificial Language Movement. Oxford; New York: B. Blackwell; London: A. Deutsch, 1985. (The Language Library) Okrent, Arika. In the Land of Invented Languages: Esperanto Rock Stars, Klingon Poets, Loglan Lovers, and the Mad Dreamers Who Tried to Build a Perfect Language. New York: Spiegel & Grau, 2009. See also web site: http://inthelandofinventedlanguages.com. But there are others that could be added to this restricted list, first among them: Rossi, Paolo. Logic and the Art of Memory: The Quest for a Universal Language; translated with an introduction by Stephen Clucas. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000. Contents. Publisher description. Where one chooses to start depends upon what period or phase one needs to focus on. Rossi focuses on the period growing out of the late medieval period and early modern era that generated the phase of philosophical languages. Eco is somewhat broader. Eco gets into the Middle Ages and the religious/mystical dimension at great length, as well as the philosophical languages and their echoes into the 19th century. He has a chapter on the modern phase beginning with Volapuk and including Esperanto, and he's deecent on Esperanto, but his interest is defined in other terms. For the general reader I might recommend Eco before Rossi, but I've read neither book. Much of Eco is available on google books. I bought Large in Harvard Square in 1987, so it's been two over decades since I read it. But I got it out the mothballs a few days ago, and if one wants a historical overview of the whole movement, prior to the Internet era and the conlang craze, I'm guessing this is what you'd most want, unless you want to concentrate exclusively on the philosophical languages. Okrent is the most recent entry, and for this and other reasons, the beginner would want to start here. But the "movement" aspect, which includes Volapuk, Esperanto, Ido, etc., is just one aspect of her interest. So depending on whether you need to zero in on the philosophical languages, the "movement" languages, or the conlanger subculture, you would prioritize your reading list accordingly. Okrent covers the conlangers as the author authors do not, so if you want a sampling of the whole history, start here. I haven't yet read Okrent, but taking a look again at Large, I think one will get a sense in Large of what matters in terms of social and intellectual history of the two real historical movements--philosophical languages and international auxiliary languages. Next I'll discuss the literature in Esperanto. At 02:52 PM 8/14/2009, Ralph Dumain wrote: >Hopefully, you'll forgive my ruminations on >specialized topics, such as my recent post on >anarchism and Esperanto. I have cause to write >in English or Esperanto, and I don't want to >send my English posts to international Esperanto >groups, so I send my English language >interventions here or post them on my gxirafo >blog. There are Esperantists in the DC area >interested in this stuff, so I don't feel too guilty. > >I don't remember how I got onto this, but >recently stumbling onto various references to >the quest for an international language in the >anarchist movement, predating the existence of >Esperanto and even Volapuk, got to me to >thinking. In the past, I would begin within the >history of the Esperanto movement, or in the >interlinguistics literature generally, and move >outward to various political and ideological >tendencies within these enterprises. But I've >also approached the matter from the opposite >direction; for example, the history of working >class education and autodidacticism includes the >role of Esperanto, and individuals who were >prominent in both, such as Mark Starr, whom a >few of you will remember. I think, though, that >one logically organizes one's material >differently when one examines, for example, the >role of Esperanto and other artificial languages >within the anarchist movement, and anarchism >within the Esperanto movement. One could say the >same about socialism, feminism, science, >philosophy, etc. I've accumulated pieces of >information on most of these topics over the >decades, but I don't believe I ever thought >systematically about a possible difference between these two approaches. > >The philosophical languages of the 17th and 18th >centuries comprise a world unto itself, about >which there is an abundant scholarly literature. >There may still be something left to say about >this subject matter, but it hasn't been neglected. > >Then there is the serious thrust for an >international language gaining intensity in the >19th century. This has also been amply >documented in histories of the international >language movement. Still, in the English >language literature I've seen over the decades >(and my memory may be lapsing), the various >ideological currents do not stand out for me. >Again, looking at the interest in international >languages among anarchists predating the >appearance of Esperanto got me to thinking about >this. The need was obviously felt in various >quarters of society including the scientific >community. I remember reading, at the same time >I learned Esperanto four decades ago, about the >American Philosophical Society's interest in a >constructed language about the time Esperanto >came on the scene. Still, I can't recall a more >detailed picture of what factions of society >were interested and to what purpose. > >This story continues into the 20th century, and >I would mark another turning point with the >beginning or end of World War II. The world >political and linguistic order that followed >would mark another distinct period. Constructed >languages other than Esperanto continued to be >the objects of creators and hobbyists and the >handfuls of scholars interested in the subject >matter. This was the time of Mario Pei and the International Language Review. > >Now I would say this is the era of the >conlangers. I'm not sure when this begins or >when it can be marked off from what I remember >back in the 1960s. The Internet has certainly >accelerated the phenomenon. Also, the realm of >science fiction and fantasy, which already had >people interested in this stuff decades ago >thanks to Tolkein, and more recently, thanks to >Star Trek. I can't be certain whether one could >say there's a generational turnover involved, >but I'm guessing there has occurred a >qualitative change somewhere along the line. >Though I've met conlangers, I'm not part of the >conlanger subculture. My last intersection with >it was in the late 1980s when I encountered the >Lojban group in the DC area (headquartered in >Vienna, VA). And this is when my interest in the >ideological dimension was piqued. Ostensibly >Loglan/Lojban was invented to test the >Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, an enterprise I consider >rather dubious, but I was intrigued by this >group as an ideological subculture, whose real >properties lay beneath the surface of its >rationalism and conscious self-understanding. > >I lost track of the Lojbanists just before I, >and they, entered the Internet world. In more >recent years I've engaged in documenting the >conlanger world and interlinguistics online, at >least to the point of compiling bibliographies or web guides, mainly: > >Esperanto >& Interlinguistics Study Guide / Esperanto-Gvidilo (kun interlingvistiko) > >Philosophical >and Universal Languages, 1600-1800, and Related Themes: Selected Bibliography > >Early today I uploaded a classic work on the subject: > >A >Short History of the International Language >Movement by Albert L?on Gu?rard (1922) > >. . . which I salvaged from an obscure corner >of the Internet. But I'm still not up on the >conlanger subculture, and my only real interest >is from a philosophical and sociological viewpoint. > >Now enter Arika Okrent's new book, which I mentioned here and blogged about: > >In >the Land of Invented Languages > >I've still not read it, but I've heard and read >interviews and book reviews, and I have a >general idea what's in it. This is a popular >book, and it seems to have been quite successful >in being pitched to a mass (relatively speaking) >audience. Okrent indeed touches on the >ideological aspects, which are in some cases >central to the existence of certain conlangs. >The most striking example that comes to mind is >L?adan, a language specifically designed to >express the nuances of the alleged female >experience of the world. I took a brief look at >a L?adan web site, but not long enough to gain >much of a perspective on it. A linguistic >subculture such as this is just begging for >ideological and sociological analysis. My memory >is not so great, I may be wrong, but I have the >impression that Okrent does not delve into this >dimension of the conlang world too deeply. It >seems to me that this is the next place to go, >and not just for one conlang, but for a broad >swath of conlangs and conlang hobbyists, and >ultimately connecting this up with a larger work >looking at the ideological contours of concern >with a universal language in previous eras. > > >>From: Ralph Dumain >>Sender: ehist at yahoogroups.com >>Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:54:26 -0400 >>Subject: [ehist] ideologio & interlingvistiko >>Reply-To: ehist at yahoogroups.com >> >>Mi plejparte ekzamenas interlingvistikon kaj la >>historion de la movado por universala lingvo en >>la lingvoj angla kaj Esperanto. Jen miaj precipaj retgvidiloj: >> >>< http://www.autodidactproject.org/guidespo.html>Esperanto >>& Interlinguistics Study Guide / Esperanto-Gvidilo (kun interlingvistiko) >> >>< http://www.autodidactproject.org/bib/lg-univ-bib1.html >Philosophical >>and Universal Languages, 1600-1800, and Related Themes: Selected Bibliography >> >>Notu ankau, ke mi jxus aldonis cxi tiun klasikan verkon: >> >>< http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/guerard1.html>A >>Short History of the International Language Movement by Albert L?on Gu?rard >> >>Cetere, kvankam cxi tiun temon plej interesas >>interlingvistoj, Esperantistoj, kaj hobiistoj >>("conlangers"), estas nova populara libro pri la >>temo kiu gajnas multan atenton en la amaskomunikiloj. Notu mian blogeron: >> >>< http://gxirafo.blogspot.com/2009/06/in-land-of-invented-languages.html >In >>the Land of Invented Languages >> >>pri libro de Arika Okrent. >> >>Aldone al la tradicie eldonita literaturo, >>ekzistas multe da tia kaj nova materialo >>interrete. Nu, kurioze estas, ke malgrau la >>abundo de materialo pri la lingva dimensio de la >>diversaj artefaritaj lingvoj, sxajne mankas >>alispeca historia analizado. Mi klarigu. >>Kompreneble, estas abunda literaturo pri diversaj >>filozofiaj vidpunktoj pri la konstruado de >>lingvoj. Estas ja studoj de la filozofiaj lingvoj >>de Wilkins, ktp., kaj aktualaj logikaj kaj >>filozofiaj lingvoprojektoj kiaj Logban/Lojban. >>Estas studoj pri la sociologio de la >>Esperanto-movado, kaj ideologiaj facetoj de gxia >>historio, ekz. la laborista movado, marksismo, >>anarkiismo, pacismo, homaranismo, ktp. Gxenerale >>oni agnoskas la utopiisman motivon de artefaritaj >>lingvoj. Mi nebule memoras la verkojn de Drezen >>kaj Spiridovic, kiujn mi devos reviziti. La verko >>de Okrent ja pritraktas ideologiajn facetojn de >>inventitaj lingvoj, ekz. L?adan, lingvo kiu >>lauraporte respegulas la vidpunkton de virinoj. >> >>Tamen, sxajnas al mi ke mankas historia, sistema >>kaj analiza superrigardo de la interago de la >>tiel-nomita planlingva movado kun diversaj aliaj >>filozofiaj, ideologiaj, kaj politikaj tendencoj >>(krom verkoj pri la filozofiaj lingvoj kaj la >>scienca revolucio kaj frumoderna filozofio). Oni >>povus analizi el la starpunktoj de la >>planlingvanoj mem, au el starpunktoj de aliaj >>movadoj kaj interesoj, ekz. anarkiismo, feminismo, filozofio, ktp. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rdumain at autodidactproject.org Mon Aug 24 18:05:01 2009 From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:05:01 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] =?iso-8859-1?q?Handbook_of_Volap=FCk?= Message-ID: Menad bal p?k bal ! Not quite what you think. Yes, Charles E. Sprague?s 1888 Handbook of Volap?k is available online: http://personal.southern.edu/~caviness/Volapuk/HBoV/ . . . and there are other resources on Volap?k available online: http://personal.southern.edu/~caviness/Volapuk/ But what I'm talking about here is a recent, novel--yes, a novel!--published in 2006: A Handbook of Volap?k by Andrew Drummond. Here is the amazon.com entry, http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Volapuk-Andrew-Drummond/dp/1904598676/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251030403&sr=1-1 but more importantly, Andy Drummond has his own web site with a section on the novel: http://www.andydrummond.net/volapuk.html The full title: A Hand-Book of Volap?k and an Elementary Manual of its Grammar and Vocabulary, Prepared from the Gathered Papers of Gemmell Hunter Ibidem Justice; Together with an Account of Events Relating to the Annual General Meeting of 1891 of the Edinburgh Society for the Propagation of a Universal Language. Edited for the First Time by Dr. Charles Cordiner, Emeritus Professor of Phrenology at Fraserburgh University. Partisans of Volap?k, Esperanto, and rival international language projects battle it out in late 19th century Europe. A whodunit of historic proportions. There are links to other pages, including an extract, reviews, and a web guide to materials on Volap?k: http://www.andydrummond.net/Volapuk/Materials.htm See also this review: "Universal Languages" by Hannah Adcock http://textualities.net/hannah-adcock/universal-languages/ I've never seen this book, let alone read on, but I'll be on the lookout. Might be a good book for a reading club, perhaps? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From piateski at alum.mit.edu Mon Aug 24 21:06:21 2009 From: piateski at alum.mit.edu (Erin Piateski) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:06:21 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] =?utf-8?q?Handbook_of_Volap=C3=BCk?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <63a634da0908241806s4ecf4a9dw631fdd53a34f656d@mail.gmail.com> I own this book. Anyone who would like to borrow it is welcome to it. FYI I read it and enjoyed it. Erin 2009/8/24 Ralph Dumain : > Menad bal p?k bal ! > > Not quite what you think. Yes, Charles E. Sprague?s 1888 Handbook of Volap?k > is available online: > > http://personal.southern.edu/~caviness/Volapuk/HBoV/ > > . . . and there are other resources on Volap?k available online: > > http://personal.southern.edu/~caviness/Volapuk/ > > But what I'm talking about here is a recent, novel--yes, a novel!--published > in 2006: A Handbook of Volap?k by Andrew Drummond. > > Here is the amazon.com entry, > > http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Volapuk-Andrew-Drummond/dp/1904598676/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251030403&sr=1-1 > > but more importantly, Andy Drummond has his own web site with a section on > the novel: > > http://www.andydrummond.net/volapuk.html > > The full title: > > A Hand-Book of Volap?k and an Elementary Manual of its Grammar and > Vocabulary, > Prepared from the Gathered Papers of Gemmell Hunter Ibidem Justice; > Together with an Account of Events Relating to the Annual General Meeting of > 1891 > of the Edinburgh Society for the Propagation of a Universal Language. > Edited for the First Time by Dr. Charles Cordiner, > Emeritus Professor of Phrenology at Fraserburgh University. > > Partisans of Volap?k, Esperanto, and rival international language projects > battle it out in late 19th century Europe. A whodunit of historic > proportions. > > There are links to other pages, including an extract, reviews, and a web > guide to materials on Volap?k: > > http://www.andydrummond.net/Volapuk/Materials.htm > > See also this review: > > "Universal Languages" by Hannah Adcock > http://textualities.net/hannah-adcock/universal-languages/ > > I've never seen this book, let alone read on, but I'll be on the lookout. > Might be a good book for a reading club, perhaps? > > > _______________________________________________ > Membroj mailing list > Membroj at esperantosocieto.org > http://esperantosocieto.org/mailman/listinfo/membroj_esperantosocieto.org > > From rdumain at autodidactproject.org Sun Aug 30 11:16:01 2009 From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:16:01 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] ideologies of conlangers & the international language movement (3) Message-ID: To recap, my previous step was to focus on the literature of interlinguistics in English and Esperanto, for the time being excluding French, German, Russian, and other languages. Furthermore, I sought to single out the broadest possible coverage of the subject, and the most important and recent books apropos to it. My rough-and-ready classification of the subject matter can for practical purposes to be reduced to three categories: (1) "philosophical" languages, which begin with theology and mysticism, and later become an integral project of the scientific revolution and early modern philosophy, and continuing into the Enlightenment, (2) languages or projects that function like "natural" languages and intended for serious international use, (3) languages designed for literary, recreational, or experimental purposes (including the contemporary conlanger phenomenon). The Internet has changed the landscape radically, but I've started out with books published in the traditional printed form. Also, the basic, introductory reading list would expand considerably if I relaxed my criteria in two directions. (1) There are a sizable number of scholarly books, even of recent vintage, that cover the development of the philosophical languages in intellectual context. (I mentioned Rossi a good "in" to the subject.) (2) There are several books that focus on the strictly linguistic aspects of constructed languages, comparing and contrasting. In this respect, I would go to Schubert (1989) and move backward in time to others. But I'm interested in a coverage of the total context of the language projects and not just into their linguistic aspects, at least to begin with. And, since not all the books cover these three broad categories evenly and in the same detail, I had to choose a set which would as a whole cover the field. Hence I came up with Eco, Large, Okrent as my first three choices. Now I think I would add Mario Pei's One Language for the World (1958) as a fourth. Its publication is now past the half century mark. As I recall, though, it was the most comprehensive general book on the subject in English since the 1920s and until the 1980s. Furthermore, its organization, its bibliography and samples of artificial languages, its exploration of the different types of solutions to the language problem and the arguments pro and con for each of them (natural languages, revival of ancient languages, reform or simplification of existing languages, blends of two or three languages, the three major types of constructed languages) and for the language problem in general is still useful, though his prospectives were too optimistic. You can get all of Pei's book online if you have a subscription to Questia, and you can get bits of it on google books. You can find parts 1 and 3, which are about the language problem and prospects for a solution, here: http://miresperanto.narod.ru/biblioteko/pei.htm This selection guts all of the history, which is located in part 2, as well as the appendices and bibliography. The previous classic study in English was Albert L?on Gu?rard's A Short History of the International Language Movement (1922), which you can get from my web site if you feel the need to search for details from an earlier era that may have slipped through the cracks of later works. In any case, my bibliographies and web guides cover the range of the field decently, and the other web sites linked to will get you as are into this subject matter as far as you can stand. Moving on to the literature in Esperanto, which includes original and translated works: it is huge. Now you can find whole books or parts of books on the web, and those in printed format, while you'll find few if any in major research libraries in the USA, are numerous. I'm way out of date with respect to general coverage of the field. I found, for example, an Esperanto translation of sections of Aleksandr Dulic^enko's En la Serc^ado de la Mondolingvo, au Interlingvistiko por c^iuj. (2006). But I haven't yet determined the best, most comprehensive, and up-to-date survey of the subject. I begin, though, with an irreplaceable volume, Historio de la Mondolingvo by Ernest K. Drezen. I have the 3rd edition (Oosaka: Pirato, 1967), which is a reprint of the 2nd edition of 1931. There is a 4th edition (Progreso, 1991), which I've not seen, but which comprises 453 pp., while my edition only has 242. What accounts for the discrepancy, I don't know. Drezen piggybacks off of Petro E. Stojan's comprehensive 1929 Bibliografio de Internacia Lingvo. Drezen mentions in the 2nd edition (same as the 3rd) that he had to excise treatment of some of the trivial projects mentioned in the 1st, but there is so much excruciating minutiae covered in the newer edition, it would suffice for most people to get a picture of the history of language invention up to 1930 (with the possible exception of the history of purely literary language inventions, presumably covered by Yaguello, 1991). (to be continued) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rdumain at autodidactproject.org Sun Aug 30 11:45:33 2009 From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:45:33 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] Holocaust & Esperanto revisited Message-ID: Some of you will remember the ESW's seminar at the Holocaust Museum, at which Jim Ryan presided. A Russian Esperanto site has preserved relevant materials: Notes on the life of Lidia Zamenhof About Esperanto Society of Washington and the Holocaust Museum STRANGLED CRIES (A profile of poet Julius Balbin) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegaines at aol.com Sun Aug 30 13:20:36 2009 From: davegaines at aol.com (David Gaines) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:20:36 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] Membroj Digest, Vol 61, Issue 11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 12:00 PM, wrote: About > Esperanto Society of Washington and the Holocaust Museum Thanks for posting this, which I missed the first time around. Also a blanket thank you for various things you've posted here which I wouldn't know about otherwise but never thanked you for LOL For example, Arika Okrent's new book. dg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From quillpower at cox.net Sun Aug 30 13:51:44 2009 From: quillpower at cox.net (Jim Ryan) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:51:44 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] Holocaust & Esperanto revisited In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A9ABC30.5050901@cox.net> Thank you for posting these, and for including my talk at the Holocaust Museum. We definitely plan to try for another similar event to coincide with the 2010 LK here. I plan to contact Mrs. Balbin (I have been informed that Mr. Balbin now has Alzheimer's) and see if we can make a formal presentation of some of his works on that occasion. A thought: We're also thinking about a public event this year to commemorate the sesquicentennial of Zamenhof's birth. Should we try to do something with the Holocaust Museum for that occasion as well? It took endless and tireless work for me to set up the event in 1995 -- I had to keep contacting many minimally responsive (or totally non-responsive) people for about a year to make it happen. (BTW, Mr. Balbin was slated to attend that event but got sick at the last minute.) So I'm not sure we want to try for two events, one this year for the LLZ sesquicentennial and another next year for the LK -- but perhaps we should try? If we have to choose one or the other, I would think next year's LK is more important, since congress attendees would attend the event en masse. If not the Holocaust Museum for LLZ in 2009, then what? Opinions welcome. Ralph Dumain wrote: > Some of you will remember the ESW's seminar at the Holocaust Museum, > at which Jim Ryan presided. A Russian Esperanto site has preserved > relevant materials: > > Notes on the life of Lidia Zamenhof > > > About Esperanto Society of Washington and the Holocaust Museum > > > STRANGLED CRIES (A profile of poet Julius Balbin) > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Membroj mailing list >Membroj at esperantosocieto.org >http://esperantosocieto.org/mailman/listinfo/membroj_esperantosocieto.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rdumain at autodidactproject.org Sun Aug 30 13:54:03 2009 From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:54:03 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] Membroj Digest, Vol 61, Issue 11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You're most welcome. Here are a few more links, from today's updates to my web guides. Here's the Questia link to Mario Pei: http://www.questia.com/library/book/one-language-for-the-world-by-mario-pei.jsp The material on the Holocaust Museum came from this Russian site, which I've listed in my main biblio thusly: [Mir Esperanto] http://miresperanto.narod.ru/ Diversa materialo en la rusa, angla, & Esperanto, pri Esperantologio, beletro, ktp., ekz.: Articles in English La Mondo de Esperanto Esperantologio kaj Interlingvistiko El Historio de Rusia E-Movado Verkoj de Zamenhof kaj Pri Li Nia Biblioteko (beletro k.a.) On the sociological aspect of the history, this article is of interest: La Ido-skismo en sociologia perspektivo de Peter G. Forster en: Li kaj Ni: Festlibro por la 80a Naski tago de Gaston Waringhien (1901 - 29 julio 1981), red. Reinhard Haupenthal (Antverpeno: TK, 1985), p. 393-399. I'd say this is pretty insightful, particularly the way Forster (author of the sociological study The Esperanto Movement, which is lacking in my library, dammit) contrasts the cultures of expertise and amateurism. As I recall from 40 years ago, some of the apologetics by Esperantists do not give a rounded portrait of the split, esp. Marjorie Boulton's excessively romanticized Zamenhof, Creator of Esperanto. Aside from the ethics of how the Delegitaro handled its business, especially the unexpected defection of de Beaufront, the partisans of Ido were not just riffraff; they comprised some of the most important intellectuals of their time--Couturat, Ostwald, Jespersen. There was validity to their purely logical view of the merits of Esperanto and possible improvements, but in the end their illusions about what they could accomplish were more self-defeating than those of the Esperantists. Drezen is much harsher, and he proffers generalizations about the various factions of the international language movement: Volapuk, Esperanto, Ido, the latinizers (Latino sine Flexione, Occidental, etc.) He views Schleyer, creator of Volapuk and a priest, as a purveyor of a feudal-authoritarian style of organization, the Latinizers as representatives of western European chauvinism and imperialism (which might be true in the case of Occidental), and the Idists as representing of the elite scientific/technical intelligentsia (true enough). Esperanto he views as the sole democratically organized and inspired constructed language movement. This perspective didn't do him or the rest of the leading Soviet Esperantists much good later in the 1930s when they wound up on the wrong end of Stalin's firing squads. The ambitions of the Idist intellectuals became casualties of World War I. See, for example: Wilhelm Ostwald's 'The Bridge' by Niles R. Holt At 01:20 PM 8/30/2009, David Gaines wrote: >On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 12:00 PM, ><membroj-request at esperantosocieto.org> >wrote: > ><http://miresperanto.narod.ru/en/articles/holocaust.htm>About >Esperanto Society of Washington and the Holocaust Museum > > >Thanks for posting this, which I missed the first time around. Also >a blanket thank you for various things you've posted here which I >wouldn't know about otherwise but never thanked you for LOL For >example, Arika Okrent's new book. > >dg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rdumain at autodidactproject.org Sun Aug 30 14:24:41 2009 From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:24:41 -0400 Subject: [Membroj] Holocaust & Esperanto revisited In-Reply-To: <4A9ABC30.5050901@cox.net> References: <4A9ABC30.5050901@cox.net> Message-ID: I've been thinking about this as well. My angle for combining Zamenhof with Sholem Aleichem (very different people, as my childhood friend who is a linguist, Esperantist, and Yiddishist advised me) has not panned out as yet--I've only contacted two Jewish organizations so far--but I also haven't come up with a tangible proposal. It would be nice to do something this year for the Zamenhof sesquicentennial. Given your difficulties in organizing the previous symposium at the Holocaust Museum, I'm guessing pursuing them further would be futile, unless one were to convene some serious scholars on the subject, get some more survivors to participate, and provide more documentation for their archives. Documentation and scholarly research is what they are interested in, and I sense they would not be amenable to another round unless we could substantially build on what was presented last time. It's nigh impossible, from what I gather from the zamenhofologo google group, to secure any interest among the Israeli scholarly community. Imagine how much more difficult that's going to be here. I also think it's time for me to write to Esther Schor at Princeton, whose upcoming talk at the National Yiddish Book Center has been postponed. 2010 is probably more feasible for a major event, and we might be able to get people from out of town to participate as speakers or panelists. One must consider the difference between an event centered around Zamenhof and one centered around Esperanto more generally. Dr. Schor, however, were she willing, could speak on both. Still, it would be nice to do something, even modest, here in DC, before the end of the year. Not sure what, though. My angle is Zamenhof (and Esperanto) in historical context, with an eye towards the various audiences interested in such matters, rather than a propaganda fest, though obviously literature tables and informational brochures would be part of the event. I'm trying to remember other precedents that would apply. I remember many years ago we did a multilingual poetry reading in a public library, only part of which was in Esperanto. Also, many years ago I was invited to a creative writing class at Howard U. to talk about Esperanto and linguistic creativity. More brainstorming is needed. PS: Our most modest effort for this year might take place in a public library or comparable public space. But this also brings to mind our general (in)activity. It looks like I missed the only meeting we're going to have in Cosi's this month. One person can't be everyone's babysitter, to be sure, but it would be nice to expand our range somewhat. For example, back in the late '80s and '90s we had a couple rounds of literary groups. I can't afford to subscribe to magazines or buy books, but what has changed decisively in our favor is the Internet. There's so much material on the web, the problem of availability via purchasing or photocopying material is obviated for a huge quantity of material. Presumably more older material not on the web, out of print, and not on the market, could be scanned. That is a pain in the ass for me, though, as I'm only working with messy OCR and HTML editing. If I had the software to produce PDF files, I do could a lot more than I'm doing now. At 01:51 PM 8/30/2009, Jim Ryan wrote: >Thank you for posting these, and for including my talk at the >Holocaust Museum. We definitely plan to try for another similar >event to coincide with the 2010 LK here. I plan to contact Mrs. >Balbin (I have been informed that Mr. Balbin now has Alzheimer's) >and see if we can make a formal presentation of some of his works on >that occasion. > >A thought: We're also thinking about a public event this year to >commemorate the sesquicentennial of Zamenhof's birth. Should we try >to do something with the Holocaust Museum for that occasion as >well? It took endless and tireless work for me to set up the event >in 1995 -- I had to keep contacting many minimally responsive (or >totally non-responsive) people for about a year to make it >happen. (BTW, Mr. Balbin was slated to attend that event but got >sick at the last minute.) So I'm not sure we want to try for two >events, one this year for the LLZ sesquicentennial and another next >year for the LK -- but perhaps we should try? If we have to choose >one or the other, I would think next year's LK is more important, >since congress attendees would attend the event en masse. > >If not the Holocaust Museum for LLZ in 2009, then what? > >Opinions welcome. > >Ralph Dumain wrote: >>Some of you will remember the ESW's seminar at the Holocaust >>Museum, at which Jim Ryan presided. A Russian Esperanto site has >>preserved relevant materials: >> >>Notes >>on the life of Lidia Zamenhof >> >>About >>Esperanto Society of Washington and the Holocaust Museum >> >>STRANGLED >>CRIES (A profile of poet Julius Balbin) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: