From jedmeltzer at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 14:28:01 2009
From: jedmeltzer at gmail.com (Jed Meltzer)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 14:28:01 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] =?utf-8?q?Fwd=3A_20_sept=3A_USEJ_tagman=C4=9Do_en_Harri?=
	=?utf-8?q?sburg=2C_PA!_=3A=29?=
In-Reply-To: <171116790909011105k8eb406an9089a8afeedca302@mail.gmail.com>
References: <171116790909011105k8eb406an9089a8afeedca302@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <28bd874f0909011128n52b3f499x13662e77deb9d351@mail.gmail.com>

Cxi tio postulas sxoforadon de pli malpli 2 horoj.  Kiam mi estis junulo,
mia familio tre ofte sxoforis du horojn por viziti miajn geavojn, tien kaj
reen la saman tagon, do kial ne faru same por nia esperantista familio.
 Estus pli amuza sxoforado kun akompanuloj.  Do cxu iuj volas kunveturi al
cxi tiu renkontigxo?-Jed

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Chuck Smith <chuckssmith at gmail.com>
Date: 2009/9/1
Subject: 20 sept: USEJ tagman?o en Harrisburg, PA! :)
To: usej at googlegroups.com



Mi cetere volas diri ke kelkaj esperantistoj planas renkonti?i por
tagman?i en Harrisburg, PA la 20-an de septembro ?e la barata
restoracio Passage to India je la 12:30.  Mi scias ke ne indas longe
voja?i por tagman?o, sed se vi hazarde lo?as iom apude, vi estas
bonvena!  (E? se vi ne lo?as apude, vi bonvenas! ha!)  Fakte, unu el
la ?eestantoj voja?os pli ol horo de Williamsport, PA kaj alia de New
Jersey kaj alia eble de Maryland.  Se vi volas partopreni, vi povas a?
skribi al mi a? enskribi?i ke vi ?eestos ?e nia facebook-evento:
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=141246197811

Plej amike!
Chuck

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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Wed Sep  2 00:18:54 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 00:18:54 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] KRC Sturmer varbas Esperantan beletron
Message-ID: <E1MihKw-0003rz-Dn@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Pri precize, li faris tion en 1930, per eldonado de cxi tiu libreto:

<http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/sturmer-espolit.html>Esperanto 
Literature: Notes and Impressions [Esperanta literaturo: notoj kaj 
impresoj] by K. R. C. Sturmer

. . . kiun mi jxus enretigis. Libroj en la angla lingvo estas suficxe 
raraj aferoj. Nacilingvaj libroj da tradukoj el Esperanta beletro au 
pri tio gravas, kompreneble, por informi la ekster-Esperantistan 
mondon pri kultura agado je Esperanto. Cxi tiu libro estas portreto 
de la atingoj de Esperanto-beletro gxis 1930.

Mi ne povas multe komenti pri la jugxoj de Sturmer, cxar mi legis nur 
manplenon da la originalaj kaj malpli da la tradukaj verkoj 
diskutitaj. Li pentras favoran portreton de kaj la originala kaj la 
tradukita beletro, kun kelkaj several taksoj. Lia stilo sxajnas al mi 
iom tro afektita en diversaj lokoj. Tamen li pretendas trakti 
beletron serioze, kaj eble li iomete influis britan publikan opinion 
pri Esperanto.

Post tiu libro en 1930, aperis post 40 jaroj en la angla:

The Esperanto language as a literary medium: a historical discussion 
of Esperanto literature, 1887-1970, and a stylistic analysis of 
translated and original Esperanto poetry [Esperanto kiel literatura 
medio] de Margaret Grace Hagler (universitata disertacio, 1970), kiu 
estas havebla per nia libroservoj sed ne estas eldonajxo en la kutima 
libromerkato.

En 1993 aperis angla traduko Esperanto: language, literature, and 
community de Pierre Janton. Enestas cxapitro pri beletro.

http://books.google.com/books?id=gVrt7HqS-HwC&dq=esperanto+literature&source=gbs_navlinks_s

Nun ni havas, finfine Concise Encyclopedia of the Original Literature 
of Esperanto [Konciza enciklopedio de la originala literaturo de 
Esperanto] (2008) de Geoffrey Sutton. Gxin mi ne havas, sed oni povas 
spioni cxerpajxojn cxe google-libroj:

http://books.google.com/books?id=-Z_8CG9g2jIC&dq=esperanto+literature&source=gbs_navlinks_s

Tamen, mi opinias ke homoj ankorau trovos Sturmer interesa, cxu kiel 
historian dokumenton, cxu kiel individuan perspektivon, cxu kiel 
instigon sercxi specifajn verkojn por legi.
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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Wed Sep  2 02:52:33 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 02:52:33 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] vocxo de Zamenhof
Message-ID: <E1Mijjd-0001hq-CO@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

http://members.at.infoseek.co.jp/peneter/esp/zamenhof_e.htm


Jes, vi povas auskulti--se apenau kompreni--la vocxon de Zamenhof 
mem. Nu, oni ne povus fari pli bone en 1909. Sed cxu eblas readkti 
tiun sondosieron por elimini la fonan tonon kaj plibonigi la klarecon 
de la vocxo?



From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Wed Sep  2 13:48:41 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:48:41 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] "Esperanto" de Roman Dobrzyn'ski (1987)
Message-ID: <E1Mityd-0004c8-8I@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

http://www.ipernity.com/doc/97850/5003895/

Ne estas novajxo, kompreneble, sed mi ne antaue spektis cxi tiun 
filmon, laumemore. Enestas portreto de Esperanto en diversaj landoj 
kaj kongresoj.

Interesis min vidi Ge-srojn Grattapaglia cxe "Bona Espero" en 
Brazilo. Mi ne scias, kiel ili fartas nuntempe. Mi unue renkontis 
ilin cxe mia unua sperto de amasa esperantistaro, en Buffalo en 
1972.  Mi lastfoje renkontis ilin cxe la ELNA-Kongreso en Vasxingtono en 1977.



From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Wed Sep  2 15:08:53 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 15:08:53 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] vocxo de Zamenhof (2)
Message-ID: <E1MivEF-0001Jt-8z@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Nu, ankau estas la sama deklamo de Zamenhof en 
vidfilmeto kun muziko de Carlos Devizia. Li 
redaktis la malbonkvalitan registrajxon por uzi 
gxin kun sia muziko, sed vi povas auskulti la 
paroladon sen muziko. Mi ne scias, cxu cxi tio 
estas la plej bonkvalita afero atingebla. Vi trovos gxin diversloke, ekz.:

La Vocxo de Zamenhof
http://www.ipernity.com/blog/carlosdevizia/160247

http://www.funnyvideos.ch/La-Vocxo-de-Zamenhof-Carlos-Devizia__VT3Z0hVfW44.html

Li klarigas plurlingve:
En mia KD "Bizara Lando" mi uzis la vocxon de Dro 
Zamenhof por kantajxo. Per tiu cxi video vi povos 
auxdi la veran vocxon de la kreinto de Esperanto dum kvar minutojn.
In my CD "Bizara Lando" I made a song using the 
voice of Dr. Zamenhof. In this video you can 
listen to his actual voice in a 4 minute speech.
En mi CD "Bizara Lando" us? la voz del Dr. 
Zamenhof. En ?ste video pueden escuchar su voz 
real en un discurso de aproximadamente cuatro minutos de duraci?n.
Estas ankau blogo por "Bizara Lando":

http://bizaralando.blogspot.com/


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notu ankau, ke ekzistas alia regsitrajxo de la 
vocxo de Zamenhof de 1909, sed gxi tiu estas nekomprenebla:

http://www.ophicinadigital.com/alls/ai_zamen.htm#8

por atingi la dosieron http://www.ophicinadigital.com/alls/m_zamenh.mp3





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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Thu Sep  3 13:04:59 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 13:04:59 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Filozofoj pri Esperanto
Message-ID: <4A9FF73B.4060106@autodidactproject.org>

*Filozofoj pri Esperanto*
http://esperanto.china.org.cn/esperantujo/2007-06/15/content_8393277.htm

C^i tiu aro da citaj^oj estas prenitaj el la jena verko:

Dratwer, Isaj. /Pri Internacia Lingvo dum Jarcentoj/. 2. eld. Tel-Avivo, 
1977.
La sekcio pri filozofoj ampleksas p. 1-24.

Listig^as c^i-retpag^e:

Ernest Naville
Rudolf Euken
Amerika Filozofia Societo (American Philosophical Society)
Mohandas Karamc^and Gandhi
Vinoba Bhave
Tadeusz Kotarbinski
Adam Schaff
Leszek Kolakowski
Todor Pavlov
Jean-Paul Sartre

C^i tiu c^apitro, kiel la tuta libro, inkluzivas komentojn pri la 
internacilingva ideo kaj pri Esperanto. Mi listigas tiujn cititojn kiuj 
ne aperas c^i-retpag^e. Mi aldonas parateze indikon pri Esperanto, kiam 
la komento celas specife Esperanton.

La Sankta Biblio
La Sankta Biblio: Nova Testamento
Berusu
Aleksarh^o
Persa Prafilozofio
Diodoros Ho Sikelos (Diodoro Sicilia)
Claudius Galenus
Hildeagardis la Sankta
Mohyieddin
Thomas More (Morus)
Teofilo Hieronimo Folengo
Juan Luis Vives
Francis Bacon de Verulam
Denis Vairasse D'Allais
Jan Amos Komensky (Comenius)
Ren? Descartes (Kartezio)
Adam Adamandy Kochan'ski
George Dalgarno
John Wilkins
Robert Boyle
Bernard Lamy
Sir Isaac Newton
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz
Giovanni Batista Vico
Charles Secondat Montesquieu
Fran?ois Marie Voltaire
Maupertius (vera nomo Pierre Louis de Moraeau)
Jean Le Rond D'Alembert
Denis Diderot
De Condillac Ettien Bonne
Antoine Caritat Marquis de Concorcet
Delmorel
Carl Fourier
Andr? Amp?re
Jean-Fran?ois Sudre
Auguste Comte
Ruslanda Imperia Akademio
Danlanda Reg^a Akademio por Sciencoj (1742- )
Pierre Joseph Proudhon
Charles Renouvier
Friedrich Engels [& Karl Marx]
Rezolucio de la 2-a Kongreso de la Unua Internacio
Herbert Spencer
Friedrich Nietzsche
William James *[Esperanto]*
Max Nordau (vera nomo S?dfeld)
Henry Phillips, Jr. *[Esperanto]*
Sri Aurobindo
Aleksandr Bogdanov * [Esperanto]*

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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Thu Sep  3 13:09:44 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 13:09:44 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Kenny G, princo de saksofono?
Message-ID: <E1MjFqW-0005pN-1P@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Ha! Adeptoj de reala jxazmuziko rikanas. Sed jen el cxina retejo:

Kenny G, princo de saksofono
http://esperanto.china.org.cn/kalejdoskopo/2008-01/24/content_9582746.htm

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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Thu Sep  3 13:23:03 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 13:23:03 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Filozofoj pri Esperanto
In-Reply-To: <4A9FF73B.4060106@autodidactproject.org>
References: <4A9FF73B.4060106@autodidactproject.org>
Message-ID: <4A9FFB77.80909@autodidactproject.org>

Mi forgesis aldoni, ke estas malnova libro:

Gl?ck, Julius. /La grandaj filozofoj kaj la universala lingvo/. 
Purmerend: Esperanto-Eldonejo J. Muusses, 1937.  31 p.

Mi ne havas, do mi ne scias tiujn, kiuj estas la filozofoj inkluzivitaj; 
mi ankau( ne povas kompari g^in kun Dratwer.

Ralph Dumain wrote:
> *Filozofoj pri Esperanto*
> http://esperanto.china.org.cn/esperantujo/2007-06/15/content_8393277.htm
>
> C^i tiu aro da citaj^oj estas prenitaj el la jena verko:
>
> Dratwer, Isaj. /Pri Internacia Lingvo dum Jarcentoj/. 2. 
> eld. Tel-Avivo, 1977.
> La sekcio pri filozofoj ampleksas p. 1-24.
> ......
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From jedmeltzer at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 13:39:13 2009
From: jedmeltzer at gmail.com (Jed Meltzer)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 13:39:13 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Kenny G, princo de saksofono?
In-Reply-To: <E1MjFqW-0005pN-1P@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1MjFqW-0005pN-1P@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <28bd874f0909031039k6600ba7fna2b4df248f334361@mail.gmail.com>

Sxajne li estas tre bone konata en Cxinio.  Kiam mi vojagxis tien antaux dek
jaroj, mi havis densan amason da longaj bukloj, kaj homoj ofte rimarkis ke
mi aspektas kiel li.-Jed

2009/9/3 Ralph Dumain <rdumain at autodidactproject.org>

>  Ha! Adeptoj de reala jxazmuziko rikanas. Sed jen el cxina retejo:
>
> *Kenny G, princo de saksofono
> *
> http://esperanto.china.org.cn/kalejdoskopo/2008-01/24/content_9582746.htm
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Membroj mailing list
> Membroj at esperantosocieto.org
> http://esperantosocieto.org/mailman/listinfo/membroj_esperantosocieto.org
>
>
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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Thu Sep  3 18:47:49 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 18:47:49 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Neo-Romanticism in Language Planning
Message-ID: <E1MjL7i-00065N-5l@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Neo-Romanticism in Language Planning
by Edo Bernasconi
from Esperanto a Interlingua, La Chaux-de-Fonds: Kultura Centro 
Esperantista, 1977, pp. 66-85
http://donh.best.vwh.net/Languages/novlatin.html

Somehow I previously missed the interlinguistics section of the late 
Don Harlow's indispensable web site:

http://donh.best.vwh.net/Languages/

This is material I've not much concerned myself with for the past 35 
years or more. I now find that either I have a bad case of amnesia 
regarding my former hobby, or I miraculously missed out on a major 
ideological issue in the international language movement.  I don't 
know how this could have happened.

Now I am familiar with an old debate in the interlinguistics 
community, posed as schematism vs. naturalism, or regularity and 
consistency in language design vs. the slavish mimicking of the 
features of a privileged group of parent languages--either the 
Romance languages alone, or the Romance languages + English and maybe 
German. I read all the arguments on this decades ago, and at this 
point I have no particular interest in their particulars. There are 
philosophical differences and guiding assumptions behind both 
philosophies, but somehow I had forgotten how extreme were the 
justifications behind the naturalistic school, i.e. those preoccupied 
with latinizing constructed languages.

But without even approaching extravagant philosophical claims, one 
can at once argue that the very term "naturalism" and some of the 
justification behind it is purely arbitrary, pseudoscientific, and 
misleading. That is so even if one accepts the pragmatic argument 
that a constructed language should stick as close to western European 
standard languages as possible based on their influence on modern 
science and technology and intellectual discourse as a whole. Maximum 
internationality is after all relative, and even were there such a 
consensus on what this could practically entail, it would pertain to 
scientific, technical, and theoretical discourse of all kinds, and 
not necessarily to other areas of discourse. A century ago nobody 
took into account the ramifications of popular culture, nor did they 
realize the overwhelming influence of the USA that was to come.

That is, different mixes are possible with respect to the origins of 
the lexicon,  the creation of morphemes, and their combination 
directly traceable or not to a privileged core set of languages. And, 
if I recall correctly, all the different possible combinations have 
been tried. Even professional linguists have acted on arbitrary and 
unjustified premises, and those who began with justifiable criteria 
did not necessarily execute them in an unimpeachable manner. And one 
could go in the direction of greater schematism--i.e. logical 
consistency--than the reverse. For example, Esperanto's word 
derivational system is far from consistent and logical, as Couturat 
noted a century ago, and this implies a lack of schematism rather 
than too much.

All this is old news, and I'm not going to rehash something I 
dispensed with decades ago. Aside from pseudoscientific and low-level 
misleading philosophical claims, there is a more outrageous dimension 
to these old arguments than I had remembered. I'm not interested in 
the obvious and relatively trivial manifestations of "Eurocentrism", 
i.e. the bias towards a certain set of linguistic raw material as a 
standard for internationality. There's a dimension of this issue that 
is much worse.

Here are some statements quoted in this articles I don't recall from 
yesteryear:

1. "This culture . . .is felt to be a typical expression of the 
culture of the white races."  -- E. VON WAHL

2. "Today . . .because our culture is based on the historical 
foundations of Rome, it is clear that the bases of the 
(international) language must be the same Latin foundations." -- E. VON WAHL

3. ". . . modern interlinguistics is an applied science [which] works 
out elements which cannot be changed at pleasure, because they have 
been utilized for centuries; this means that this science must use 
the words of the international cultural vocabulary, common to all 
languages of culture." -- Engelbert PIGAL

4. " . . .the best international languages is the easiest language 
for the greatest number of people  . . . . it concerns only Europeans 
or the inhabitants of other parts of the globe who are either of 
European origin or possess a civilization based on European 
civilization itself." -- Otto JESPERSEN

5. "In every individual example, the language-variants (i.e. the 
etymologically related words in the different Romance languages) have 
become for me a sort of symbol of the cultural variants within the 
Western world; the final international term was the symbol of the 
homogeneity of the Latin world -- or, if we prefer -- of the 
Romanian-Germanic world." -- Alexander GODE

6. "Our Western civilization is a doubly millenial heritage of 
Greco-Roman antiquity. Esperanto is a mere masquerade of this 
heritage, while Interlingua offers us everything that deserves being 
saved from this heritage." -- Ric BERGER

7. I don't have a quote from the horse's mouth for this one; here is 
what the author says:

''According to Alphonse Matejka, as quoted by Alessandro Bausani, 
(10) the international auxiliary language should be a phenomenon and 
ideal of "higher civilizations," which the author opposes to the 
lower ones. Western civilization, then, would be "higher."'

8. "The new interlanguage will be the determining factor in not only 
the cultural but also the economic and political integration of the 
peoples who belong to what we today call Western civilization, which 
we consider the most dynamic." -- Stefano BAKONYI

9. "An international auxiliary language for the cultured nations of 
the West cannot be anything other than a language which reflects 
their culture ... The needs and the customs of the Western nations 
will be the determining factors: of these, then, and not those of the 
other civilizations, ancient or eastern, Negro or Papuan . . . The 
East is daily becoming more Westernized. If nationalists in Nagasaki 
protest against this evolution, that's no more important than a 
bird's chirp in a storm. Today it is Western civilization that is 
global . . . The eastern peoples have neither their own science nor 
their own technology. These are Western, and a language which aims at 
being useful to them can only be Western." -- A. Z. RAMSTEDT

10. "For me, it is clear: either Bolshevism will conquer, and with it 
the new culture of Esperanto will be victorious; or Bolshevism will 
not conquer, and then the complicated Neo-Romance languages, which 
conserve the elements of the two-thousand-year-old European culture, 
will triumph." -- E. DE WAHL

Thus is summarized one major ideological dimension of the 
issues.  (There are others pertaining specifically to Gode's 
Interlingua, which I will get to later.)  Did I simply not read any 
remarks of this kind 35-40 years ago? I doubt I could have forgotten 
them if I had. Now please note what matters to me here. There are 
purely pragmatic arguments for singling out the Romance or West 
European Romance and Germanic languages as privileged source material 
for an interlanguage in the modern world, which have nothing to do 
with cultural superiority or civilizational essences. The purely 
linguistic aspect, separated from the metaphysical folderol, needs to 
be debated on different grounds than these. And Esperantists have 
been and remain as guilty as others in making outrageous bogus 
cultural claims based on linguistic facts alone. To put it another 
way, Eurocentrism of a purely linguistic nature may or may not be a 
non-issue, but it should not be confused with the Eurocentrism that 
really counts, which is not about language at all.

There is no warrant for making any of the grandiose civilizational 
claims cited in the above statements. One does not have to believe or 
promote any of this nonsense to make a practical claim for the 
privileging of a latinate (or graeco-latin) lexicon based on its 
prevalence in contemporary scientific, technological, and theoretical 
discourse. In the old days people could get away with such shameful 
statements; now only the extreme right does so. One should note, 
however, that the history of Esperanto is not innocent either, with 
regard to out-and-out racism in former times or more subtle 
ethnopluralist propaganda today.

The author sums up this ideological orientation thusly:
Now we can begin to understand the manner of thought of the adherents 
of Interlingua. For them there is a Western-European linguistic 
unity, which might be rediscovered and reconstructed, and later 
forced on all other peoples because of the superiority of Western 
civilization. We therefore first take note of a political choice, 
which is concretized in a Eurocentric perception of the world, and 
realized in the elaboration of a methodology suitable for 
construction a "Western" language.
While modern linguistics, ethnology, psychology, psychiatry, etc., 
are becoming ever more interested in those facts called 
"transcultural," the Neo-Romanticists are becoming ever more enclosed 
in their ivory tower in Western Europe.
It is, then, clear why the language planning methodology of this 
school owes nothing to modern linguistic methods. It much more 
closely resembles the sometime classical philological methods 
elaborated in the 19th century.

There are two dangers: on the one hand, that we will be limited in 
our search for a neo-Latin ursprache, and subordinate everything to 
that search. This happened to Interlingua's author, Alexander Gode. 
On the other hand, we take note of the danger of falling into 
linguistic and cultural imperialism, which puts the values of the 
"others" in the shade, and ends its career in racism, which in the 
facts negates the intrinsic values of a planned international language.
This covers what is essentially wrong about this type of thinking. 
"Linguistic and cultural imperialism", however, is a red herring as 
an abstract notion. What is linguistically or culturally 
imperialistic can only be judged in situo, and then only in context 
of real imperialism--economic, political, and military. Otherwise, we 
end up with the ethnopluralist mysticism borrowed from the European 
Right, which has sadly infected the propaganda of the Esperanto movement.

The author successfully demolishes all the fraudulent conceptual and 
linguistic arguments of the "Neo-Romantic" school. He also makes that 
important point, which I made in preceding paragraphs--that language 
is not to be equated with culture or civilization, and that a 
civilizational or cultural essence is a bogus notion in the first 
place. And Esperantists need to take note of this with respect to 
their own propaganda as well.

Bernasconi goes on to demolish the other essentials of Gode's 
pseudoscientific argumentation, most importantly, the claim to 
extract a prototypical Standard Average European Ursprache and to 
fashion Interlingua as a natural outgrowth of its organic 
development. Gode's Platonic notion of linguistic essence is 
manifested also in his embrace of the most dubious formulation of 
linguistic relativity, that of Benjamin Lee Whorf.

Bernasconi also has to take issue with the "naturalistic" arguments 
of bona fide linguists such as Jespersen.  All in all he does a 
pretty creditable job. He shows up all the arguments of the 
naturalist school to be philosophically and scientifically bogus. 
This does not, in my mind, prejudge what combination of "schematism" 
and "naturalism" (or a posteriori borrowing from a set of languages 
targeted as maximally international) is optimal for a constructed language.

One final note on Eurocentrism. The linguistic issue in my view, 
should not be framed only in terms of which language is easier to 
learn on the part of non-European language communities. That is one 
possible consideration, but the fundamental issue is that 
"naturalism" is not even a valid standpoint from within the 
Indo-European language family, or more narrowly, within the Romance 
or Germanic subfamilies. Systematicity and regularity as principles 
of learnability and elegance are as much of concern to native 
speakers of Indo-European languages as they are to others. 
Conversely, the recognizability of lexemes which have already crossed 
the boundaries of language families--the lexicon of a globalized web 
of technology and popular culture--is also a consideration.






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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Thu Sep  3 19:15:18 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 19:15:18 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Lojban & folk functionalism
Message-ID: <E1MjLYJ-0002iK-45@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

http://www.unish.org/unish/DOWN/PDF/Nick_Nicholas(133~167).pdf
Folk Functionalism in Artificial Languages: The Long Distance 
Reflexive vo'a in Lojban
Nick Nicholas
University of Melbourne, Australia

Journal of Universal Language 3
March 2002, 133-167

Abstract
A notion which underlies much functionalist thinking on language is 
that language is a system whose structure is engineered to solve
problems in communication. Artificial languages are of particular 
interest in this regard, because such problem solving can be undertaken
consciously on the part of both language planners and (to the extent 
that the language community allows it) language users, enabling the
linguistic structure to adapt to their communicative needs. Such 
language users are applying lay intuitions about what linguistic features
will be more effective in communication what might be characterised 
as 'folk functionalism'. An instance of such adaptation is considered 
here: the Lojban pronoun vo'a, intended as a generic reflexive, has 
become a long distance reflexive in order to align with Lojban's 
idiosyncratic pronominal system. In fact, this seems to have beendone 
independently by the language planner and the language community. 
That the solution yielded is typologically unusual demonstrates that 
communicative and paradigmatic pressures can trump natural language 
habit, and even typological universals in a 'perturbed'grammatical system.


----------------------------------------

Note: Esperanto and to a lesser extent its rivals play a role in this 
paper as well. Esperanto is seen as a successful linguistic system.
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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Fri Sep  4 17:34:56 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 17:34:56 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Kluba Himno
Message-ID: <4AA18800.6010706@autodidactproject.org>

Mi trovis c^i tion c^e Dana Esperanto-Asocio. G^in kantis Dana 
Esperantista Fervojista Asocio. Mi preferas la pornografian travestion 
de la Himno, sed jen:

/Nova Himno
(S^telita en Horsens.) /

En la klubon venis gaja sento,
El la klubo iris forta voko,
Kvazau( per flugiloj de la vento
Vokon sendis ni al c^iu loko,
Kaj gastaro balon-soifanta
Tuj alig^as nian familion.
En la klubo pace militanta
Ili trovos festan-harmonion.

De la klubo estas fundamento
Ke ni helpu unu la alian;
Ni amuzu nin do en konsento,
Ni ja faris rondon familion.
Por la klubo forta huraaro
Tra la tuta domo tuj audig^as;
Vivu g^i g^is la venonta jaro
Klam festo reefekitivig^os!

Au(toro:/ S^telisto./. (Ni ne scias, kiu la persono estas!)
Vers^ajne al jubilea arang^o en Horsens 1911-1915.
http://esperantonia.dk/defakanto.htm

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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Fri Sep  4 18:03:17 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 18:03:17 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Ivo Lapenna cxe YouTube
Message-ID: <E1MjguA-0006Gq-Dc@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Jen listo de prelegoj de Lapenna kiujn vi povas spekti cxe You Tube:

http://esperantonia.dk/bio-lapenna-filmoj.htm

Mi auskultas prelegon el 1987, "Cent Jaroj de Parola Esperanto Kulturo".

Jen demando:

vidbendo = videotape, sed kiel oni diru "video" en ajna formato 
gxenerale (VHS, DVD, YouTube, ktp.)?


  



From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Fri Sep  4 19:24:50 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 19:24:50 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Yiddish pastiche re Zamenhof
Message-ID: <E1MjiB5-0007hN-PF@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

As it turns out, there are quite a number of references to Zamenhof 
and Yiddish on the web, in google books and elsewhere.

There are several communications on the subject in:

Mendele: Forum for Yiddish Literature and Yiddish Language
http://mendele.commons.yale.edu/

In the archive, links given to individual pieces don't work, but this 
link to a zip file does:

<http://shakti.trincoll.edu/%7Emendele/vol06/vol06.zip>Volume 06.zip 
(zip format)

Some of the comments on Zamenhof are written in Yiddish, others in 
English.  Here I'll just deliver one tidbit.

A comic poem:

         Hista bokhe le Zamenhofe
         Meyks mi lakhe on a sofe.
         Donerveter!  Sacremento!
         Eto sfoso Esperanto!

In vol. 6.084, we find this post from Sholem Yafe:
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 01:05:50 -0400
From: lakejaffe at aol.com
Subject: Zamenhof and Yiddish
Mention of Zamenhof reminds me of a bit of comic verse my father used 
to enjoy quoting.  If I remember correctly, it goes like this . . .
I'm sure some of you linguists can help identify the languages 
represented in this kashe and botshvene. (I think my dad got it from Der
Groyser Kundes.)
A response came in vol. 6.085:
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 11:42:34 -0500
From: rturkel at cas.org
Subject: Zamenhof and Yiddish
I think the base language here is Hebrew or Yiddish.  I can't make 
sense of it all, but the end of the first line is le-Zamenhof (to 
Zamenhof); "bokhe" is probably Yiddish "bokher" (young man), from the 
Hebrew "bakhur."   Perhaps the whole line is Yiddish - heyst a bokher 
Zamenhof. Then, "makes me lakhn un a sof (Yiddish: laugh endlessly)." 
"Donnerwetter" in German means "thunderstorm," and is a mild curse; 
"Sacramento" is the capital of California, and looks to be there 
purely for the rhyme.  The first word in the last line is Russian for 
"this," and the next word is surely Hebrew sof-sof (in the end).
The entire doggerel seems to be a play on the fact that Esperanto is 
composed of elements of many different, unrelated languages.
Hope this helps.
Rick Turkel
Another response came in vol. 6.087:
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 15:59:31 +0200
From: stefan.balzter at musik.uni-giessen.de
Subject: Zamenhoff and Yiddish / comic poem
Rick Turkel assumed in issue 6.085 that the word "Sacremento" might 
be there just for the rhyme. Yet since the first word of the line 
obviously is taken from the German language ("Donnerwetter"), I'd 
suggest to explain the second one likewise: In German (mostly 
Bavarian), "Sakrament" is not only the word for an ecclesiastical 
sacrament, but also a mild curse or a yell of astonishment or 
surprise - just like the Donnerwetter.

Stefan Balzter
I still don't know who wrote this piece of doggerel, but it's a 
valuable piece of trivia nonetheless.
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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Fri Sep  4 19:40:39 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 19:40:39 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] more from Mendele: Zamenhof & Yiddish
Message-ID: <E1MjiQP-0005yy-Mm@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

More from Mendele: Forum for Yiddish Literature and Yiddish Language, vol. 6:

vol. 6.080:

Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 22:22:12 EDT
From: ellen at central.cis.upenn.edu
Subject: zamenhof's 'dream' language

the following was posted on the linguist list. i repeat it here for
general interest and also ask if anyone has ever heard of this anecdote
and, if so, knows what language zamenhof was dreaming in. yiddish,
perchance?

also, i've always heard that zamenhof was a native yiddish speaker. does
anyone have a reference for this? thanks.

Ellen Prince

       Date:  11 Oct 1996 10:48:56 EDT
       From:  100101.2276 at CompuServe.COM (Dan Maxwell)
       Subject:  language in dreams

       I thought that the recent postings on the topic of language in dreams
       had pretty much covered the range of phenomena in existence on this
       topic, but it appears that I was wrong.  I was recently browsing
       through a biography of Zamenhof, the creator of Esperanto, called
       "L'homme qui a de'fie' Babel"(the man who defied Babel) by Rene'
       Centassi and Henri Masson, when i came across an account of a dream
       which Zamenhof had, apparently at the age of about 16.  That would
       have been more than 10 years before 1887, usually considered the
       birthyear of the language, when his first grammar of Esperanto was
       published.  He at that time was concerned with the question of whether
       his language should have a definite article, having noticed that his
       own Polish, and also Russian (presumably the prestige language of that
       time and place, since Zamenhof lived in Bialystok, then part of the
       Russian Empire), did not.  In the dream he was pondering this question
       near a forest with his uncle Jozef and his Greek teacher, whose name
       was Billevitch.  Zamenhof suggested that they might find someone in
       the forest who could help them. Billevitch, on the contrary, warned
       against going into the forest on the grounds that there were three
       girls in red who wanted to harm them.  Zamenhof then looked toward the
       forest, saw the girls in question, and cried out, "there are
       - -the-(author's emphasis) three girls in red."  Zamenhof then woke up
       in a sweat, but decided that his problem had been solved.  The
       definite article had in his view proved its usefulness.  And, as every
       Esperantist knows, there is a definite article, namely the invariable
       "la".

       I can't remember having or hearing about a dream with this degree of
       linguistic specificity.  It is also not clear what language the dream
       occurred in.  Probably not Polish or Russian, since these lack the
       article which played such a prominent role. Zamenhof knew several
       other languages, most of them with definite articles, so these appear
       to be better candidates.  In any case, postings from others suggest
       that people can dream in languages that they don't know very well.
       The last possibility is that the language was some embryonic form of
       Esperanto itself, since Zamenhof was so intensely concerned with this
       topic.

       Dan Maxwell

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Contents of Vol. 6.081
October 16, 1996

1) L. L. Zamenhof and Yiddish (Howard I. Aronson)
2) L. L. Zamenhof and Yiddish (Bob Rothstein)
3) L. L. Zamenhof and Yiddish (Irving D. Goldfein)
4) Yiddish vegetarian writers (Pawel Brunon Dorman)

1)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:54:27 -0600
From: hia5 at midway.uchicago.edu
Subject: L. L. Zamenhof and Yiddish

Ellen Prince (Mendele Vol 6.080) asked about whether L. L. Zamenhof, the
inventor of Esperanto, knew Yiddish. Although he apparently regarded
Russian as his first (and favorite) non-invented language, he clearly
was a speaker of Yiddish and, in fact, wrote a fascinating grammar of
Yiddish in Russian. The grammar was not published until 1982 with the
original Russian and a complete Esperanto translation. In it Zamenhof
argued for Latinization of the Yiddish writing system. He proposes a
literary pronunciation that is almost exactly the same as the YIVO norm.
A propos of another thread he states that one should spell 'auf' as
'af.' His proposed spelling norms totally reject the daytshmerish
orthography in favor of one reflecting actual Yiddish pronunciation. He
calls for a purging of daytshmerisms from the language. All in all, a
very "modern" approach for 1879-1882, the approximate time of
composition.

I don't know about the 'the,' but it is widely accepted that only one
purely Yiddish morpheme made it into Esperanto. This is the suffix (now,
basically, substantive) -edz-o 'husband,' which is viewed as a back
formation of -edz-in-o 'wife,' and which appears to derive from the
suffix -etsn in the word rebetsn.

By the way, Zamenhof's writings on Yiddish are collected in: Adolf
Holzhaus. "L. Zamenhof, Provo de gramatiko de novjuda lingvo- kaj
-Alvoko al la juda intelektularo. Helsinki, 1982.

Howard I. Aronson

2)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:49:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: rar at slavic.umass.edu
Subject: Zamenhof

Re Ellen Prince's question about Ludwig Zamenhof's native language:

According to Reyzen's _Leksikon_, Zamenhof's father, Marcus, and his
grandfather, Fabian, were both teachers of French and German in
Bialystok, then part of the Russian empire, where four
languages--Russian, Polish, German and Yiddish--were common. Reyzen says
nothing about his first language, but points out that Zamenhof once
thought that Yiddish, because of its widespread character, might serve
as a basis for an international language. Zamenhof spent three years
working on a Yiddish grammar, only fragments of which were ever
published (in a Yiddish periodical). In his publications on Yiddish he
suggested adopting the Latin alphabet for Yiddish.

In 1958 the editor of _Yidishe shprakh_, Yudel Mark, gently corrected a
reader who had asserted that Zamenhof's mother tongue was Russian.  He
argued that Zamenhof grew up in a bilingual milieu even if he learned
Russian as a child and heard Russian at home--and from his mother at
that (YS 18:80).

In a subsequent issue of the journal (YS 19 [1959]:30) another reader
expressed his surprise that Zamenhof had written for a Yiddish
periodical and worked on the language.  He related his own experience of
being visited daily by Dr. Zamenhof (who was an ophthalmologist) during
the four weeks in 1902 when he was a patient in a Jewish hospital in
Warsaw.  He reported that the doctor normally used Polish while making
his rounds, but since he (the patient) spoke little Polish, Zamenhof
spoke "a 'daytshn' yidish" with him.  He added that the doctor "[hot]
ober keyn mol nit oysgeredt keyn ekht yidish vort."  The editor (Mark)
conceded that this may have been true, but suggested that the strongly
anti-Yiddish attitude of the time would have made it difficult for a
doctor to deal officially with his patients in ordinary Yiddish, "nit
fardaytshndik a bisl zayn shprakh."  Mark added that it is conceivable
that a person could perfectly well write about linguistic matters in
Yiddish without being a fluent _speaker_ of the language.

Bob Rothstein

3)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:26:34 -0700
From: goldfein at ix.netcom.com
Subject: Zamenhof

A second-hand but reliable personal reference: my father has often told
me of his friendship with Zamenhof's daughter, in Warsaw. She told him
that her father had done quite a lot of writing in Yiddish, and had in
fact worked on a Yiddish grammar which was never published. His dream,
however, could have been in Russian, German, Hebrew or English -
languages with which he also had great facility.

Irving D. Goldfein

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


vol. 6.083:

Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 10:13:07 +0900
From: tsuguya at gol.com
Subject: Zamenhof and Yiddish

The following two bibliographies of Zamenhof in Esperanto give a short
but reliable account of his knowledge of Yiddish:

Holzhaus, A. 1969. Doktoro kaj lingvo Esperanto. Helsinki. (pp. 19-34)

Maimon, N. Z. 1978. La kashita vivo de Zamenhof. Tokyo. (pp. 71-78)

By the way, Zamenhof, under the pseydonym of Dr. X, wrote an article
entitled "Vegn a yidisher gramatik un reform in der yidisher shprakh" in
_Lebn un visnshaft_, no. 1 (1909).

On a possible Yiddish influence on Esperanto, see, for example, the
following articles:

Gold, D. L. 1980. Towards a Study of Possible Yiddish and Hebrew
Influence on Esperanto. In: Miscellanea Interlinguistica, ed. by I.
Szeldahelyi, Budapest, pp. 300-367.

Piron, C. 1984. Contribution a l'etude des apports du yidiche a
l'esperanto. Jewish Language Review 4: 15-29.

Tsuguya Sasaki

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Contents of Vol. 6.085
October, 1996

1) Zamenhof and Yiddish (Chana and Yosl Mlotek)
2) Zamenhof and Yiddish (Rick Turkel)

1)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 12:59:46 -0500
From: chaniyos at aol.com
Subject: Vegn Dr. Zamenhof, der grinder fun Esperanto un yidish

Mit yorn tsurik (29 oktober 1972) hot Profesor Nosn Ziskind undz
ongefregt in dem rubrik "Perl fun der yidisher poezye" in Forverts tsi
Dr. Ludvig Zamenhof hot geshribn yidishe lider.  Er hot dort geshribn:

       Adolf Holtshauz tsitirt in zayn biografye "Doktora kai linga
       esperanto" (mir tsitirn dem titl loyt dem yidishn tekst) di
       vayterdike 5-shuredike strofes fun Zamenhof's nit-publikirter
       'Yidisher gramatik' fun a ksav-yad vos gefint zikh in der
       natsyonaler biblyotek in yerushalayim.  Dort vert take ongegebn
       Zamenhof vi der mekhaber fun di lider....un azoy vayter."

Er tsitirt di lider (mir brengen zey tsum sof fun briv) un fregt on vos
mir veysn vegn dem, tsi dos zaynen Zamenhofs eygene lider.  Etlekhe
vokhn shpeter (in di Perl l3 detsember l972) hot a Zamenhof-forsher N.
Ts. Maymon fun san frantsisko geentfert:

       Mr. A. Forsher, Oyf der frage vos prof. Nosn Ziskind hot gefregt
       tsi Dr. Zamenhof hot geshribn di yidishe lider (vos er hot aykh
       geshikt), tsi emetser andersh, derloyb ikh zikh - als
       Zamenhof-forsher - tsu entfern.

l. Dr. Zamenhof hot geshribn a sakh lider: in der tsayt fun Khivas-tsion -
tsionistishe, in rusish, speter - espirantistishe in esperanto.

2. Vegn di rusishe lider hot Nokhem Sokolov gezogt tsu Dr. Emanuel
Olshvanger, az zey zaynen geven di shenste tsionistishe lider, vos er
hot ven geleyent in rusish.  Eyn lid, ibergezetst in esperanto, vert
gebrengt in Zamenhofs biografye un dort gefinen zikh di verter "Vakh
oyf, mayn folk". Fun dem iz gedrungen az "Shtey oyf mayn folk" iz
Zamenhofs un men darf es nisht zukhn bay Mikhl Gordon un A. Goldfaden.

3. Dr. Zamenhof dertsylt in zayn kurtser oytobiografye, az shoyn als
tsen-yoriker bokher hot er gekholemt tsu vern a groyser rusisher poet.
Oyb azoy, farvos zol er nit hobn geshribn oykh lider in yidish, dos
loshn vos er hot shtark lib gehat: 'Ikh lib heys dem azoy-genantn
'zhargon' - shraybt er in onheyb fun zayn 'Yidishe gramatik' un shpeter
oyf an ander ort: 'Beys undzere inteligentn (arayngerekhnt afile di
yidishe shrayber) batsien zikh tsu yidish mit di greste farakhtung un
batrakhtn zi a bisl vild, hobn mir zikh shtendik batsoygn un batsien
zikh tsu ir oykh itst mit libshaft un mir zeen in dem azoy genantn
zhargon di zelbe shprakh vi ale andere shprakhn.

4. Di 'gramatik' vu di yidishe lider gefinen zikh, hot Dr. Zamenhof
geendikt in onhoyb fun Khivas Tsien in Varshe, l881-l882.  In der tsayt
hot er zikh a sakh mesasek geven mit Khivas tsien un iz geven eyner fun
di prominente firer.  Demolt hot er oykh geshribn tsienistishe artiklen
un lider in rusish. Un derfar merkt zikh oykh zeyer shtark on der
tsienistisher gayst un entuziasm in di etlekhe lider oyf yidish.  Es ken
zayn az er hot nokh mer yidishe lider farfast, nor di por zenen geblibn.

5. Trots dem shvakh fun Sokolov oyf Zamenhofs tsienistishe lider in
rusish, hot Zamenhof aleyn zikh nisht gehaltn far a groysn poet.  Er
zogt befeyresh in der gramatik: 'Ikh breng di dozike lider nor als
bayshpiln vi azoy tsu makhn yidishe ferzn, nisht als literarishe
produktn fun groysn vert'.

6. Dr. Olshvanger, vos iz geven an esperantist un hot gehat perzenlekhn
kontakt mit Zamenhofn, hot mir geshribn in yor l95l: 'Dr. Zamenhof iz
geven der ershter vos hot farfast a genug detalirte gramatik fun yidish,
un hot arayngezets oykh zayne lider in yidish' - befeyresh; zayne eygene
lider.

7. Derekh agev vil ikh do dermanen, az di gramatik iz take geshribn in
rusish, ober a kleyner teyl iz iberzetst gevorn in yidish fun A. Litvin
un gedrukt in zayn vilner zhurnal 'Lebn un visnshaft', l909-l9l0
(hakdome un ortografishe erklerungen; nisht-hoyptvort, bayvort, tsolvort
unazoyvayter). Es iz nisht gedrukt gevorn in gantsn, vayl Litvin hot
gevolt makhn enderungen in tekst un Dr. Zamenhof hot oyf dem nisht
maskim geven (loyt Dr. Olshvanger, gehert fun Zamenhof aleyn)."

N. Ts. Maymun dermont oykh agev az Mr. Adolf Holtshoys vos hot aroysgegebn
dos bukh iz nisht keyn yid.

Oygust 5,l973 hot di Perl gedrukt a zayt fun der esperanto-tsaytung "Heroldo
de esperanto" (fun l junio l973) vu er drukt undzer onfrage:'Cy Zamenhof
verkis jidajn poemojn?"

Di finf lider vos Dr. Ziskind hot geshikt zaynen:

l.
Oyf yeder loshn zingt ir, mayne brider,
Vi betlers nemt ir alts bay fremde layt -
Genug, mayn folk! vu zaynen dayne lider?
Ver oykh a mentsh! Shtey oyf, es iz shoyn tsayt!

2.
Dayn geveyn vet got nit hern,
Blind iz er far dayne laydn;
Zeyen muzstu, zey mit trern,
Oyb du vilst in freydn shnaydn.

3.
Tsien, heyb oyf dayne farshvolene oygn,
Fun dayne kinder un zeyer noyt;
Shvakh un farshvartst un in tsveyen geboygn,
Betlen zey oys zeyer shtikele broyt.

4.
Es tsien zikh shifn - es zingen di layt.
Es shoymen zikh freylekh di veln,
Dos geyen di yidn fun goles bafrayt
An eygenem koymen tsu shteln.

5.
Get (?) farges dayne tsores un gliklekherheyt
Heylt di vundn mit lider un vayn,
Un dertseylt dayne kinder in nakhes un freyd
Vi es iz biter a yosem tsu zayn.

Chana un Yosl Mlotek

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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Fri Sep  4 20:00:35 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 20:00:35 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Hamlet in Esperanto
Message-ID: <E1Mjijg-0008GN-T4@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hamlet in Esperanto
Conference "The Paths of Interlinguistics: From Bruno Migliorini to Today"
Organized by the Accademia della Crusca and the Academy of Esperanto
University of Florence, Italy, July 28, 2006
Humphrey Tonkin
University of Hartford
http://uhaweb.hartford.edu/TONKIN/pdfs/HamletInEsperanto.pdf

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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Sat Sep  5 09:22:49 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 09:22:49 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Pig-Esperanto
Message-ID: <E1MjvG4-0005HA-JL@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

If you're American, you probably know Pig-Latin.  Here's yet another 
unflattering use of "Esperanto" as a metaphor, found on the web:

http://laonandthenibelungs.blogspot.com/

This charming little poem is attributed to Robert Conquest:

Said Pound, "When writing a Canto
It becomes a sort of portmanteau
For any old crap
That occurs to a chap
Plus masses of pig-Esperanto."

------------------

Pound was a fascist and anti-Semite, who ended up at St. Elizabeth's 
instead of being executed for treason at the end of World War II. 
It's a shame to see Esperanto dragged through the mud in the process 
of making a righteous mockery of this buffoon.

But perhaps we should develop Pig-Esperanto.

Ekz.: Kisu mian pugon.

Isu-kej ian-mej ugon-pej?
U-kis an-mi on-pug?




From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Sat Sep  5 09:30:06 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 09:30:06 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] this chaplain not a homarano
Message-ID: <E1MjvN6-0002F3-4U@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Psychospiritual care: a paradigm (shift) of care 
for the spirit in a non-religious context
Revd Dr Steve Nolan is Chaplain, The Princess Alice Hospice, Esher, Surrey.
http://www.eurochaplains.org/enhcc_library/nolan2006-1.pdf

Specimens:

(1)

Pattison counsels against the ?temptation to try 
to develop a lowest common denominator 
 language 
that all participants can ?speak? and agree upon 
a kind of moral Esperanto? (2001:40). Instead, he 
argues ?that chaplains who come from a 
distinctive and valuable religious tradition 
should think more carefully about what it is that 
they can bring into the fragmented world of 
generic spirituality? (2001:44). For Pattison, 
religious traditions provide ?lived performances 
of spirituality? (2001:44) bringing real wisdom 
and integrity of character to situations of life and death.

(2)

Pattison seems clear that when cut off from its 
religious hinterland ?spirituality? is 
necessarily reduced to an Esperanto of the lowest common denominator.

(3)

Rather than taking what appears superficially 
common among the various spiritualities, Elkins 
describes what is profoundly common
in human experience. Put in terms of Pattison?s 
language metaphor, Elkins is less an Esperanto than a proto Indo-European.

-------

Poor Esperanto, to be sucked into the maw of this theological claptrap.

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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Sat Sep  5 09:47:16 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 09:47:16 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Esperanto, logical positivism, psycholinguistics
Message-ID: <E1MjveW-00047M-09@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>



<http://www.doxophiliac.com/2009/06/ill-admit-it-i-think-klingon-is-cool.html>I'll 
admit it. I think Klingon is cool.

Monday, June 1, 2009
Cate Morrison, The Doxophiliac Blog

Interesting reaction to Okrent's In the Land of Invented Languages.

On this particular bullet point:

"The goals for Esperanto sound a lot like those Peter Galison 
describes as linking Vienna Circle logical positivism and Bauhaus 
aesthetics, though Esperanto is older. Inventor L. L. Zamenhof sought 
to create a universal second language to foster peace. I link all 
three because each saw difference as the cause of violence between 
peoples and sought to erase the markers of that difference. The VC 
sought to overcome subjectivity by creating a logical structure of 
thought and expression which could be more resistant to 
miscommunication or misunderstanding. The Bauhaus movement stripped 
ornamentation from their creation and elevated the functional as the 
source of beauty without provincial/historical markers. The object is 
made transparent to the viewer--it is truthful."

Not the best of analogies. But since we are on the topic of the 
Vienna Circle, it is apropros to note that Carnap was an enthusiastic 
Esperantist, but he viewed Esperanto as a tool for social 
communication totally differently from his project of logical syntax, 
i.e. an artificial logical language or formalism. And I have the web 
pages to prove it:

<http://www.autodidactproject.org/quote/carnap1.html>Carnap on 
Wittgenstein & Esperanto / Carnap pri Wittgenstein & Esperanto

<http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/carnap2.html>"Lingvoplanado" 
(Language Planning) de Rudolf Carnap (9/9/2004)

           ( For part of original English text, see 
<http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/5037/carnap.html>Rudolf Carnap 
on IALs.)

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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Sat Sep  5 09:52:59 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 09:52:59 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Esperanto, Aurobindo, riots
Message-ID: <E1MjvjF-00064P-7E@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Post-human, Evolution and the Avatar
by Debashish on Sun 26 Nov 2006 12:16 AM PST |  Profile 
| 
<http://www.sciy.org/blog/_archives/2006/11/21/2517697.html#787073>Permanent 
Link
Yes, this necessiy for a language of deconstruction/reconstruction 
for translation into a "global commons" I agree with and feel 
strongly the need for mysef. I see this need in terms of an 
engagement of the specialized formation of every theoretical 
discourse - philosophical, psychological, social, cultural, 
scientific - with the Aurobindonian logos. But this is also a matter 
of engagement and renewal of whatever world-languages we use at 
present, themselves evolving and in need often of 
stretching/rupturing/transfoming through that engagement. 
Contemporary Science may certainly give us "a" helpful language here 
(so long as it is not an Esperanto, for which, coming from India, I 
anticipate race-riots). But to my sensibility, hybrid practices of 
language (which we are already engaged in here and in this, too, Sri 
Aurobindo is himself the predecessor) side by side with a growing 
archive of flexible translations would be nice.

DB


----------------------------

Esperanto once again the whipping boy of religious and mystical 
cranks. This one's from India. 
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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Sat Sep  5 10:00:36 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 10:00:36 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Wittgenstein vs. Esperanto again, oy!
Message-ID: <E1Mjvqf-0002ZT-Gd@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>



Tradition and individuality essays (synthese library 221)

Auteur(s) : NYIRI
Date de parution: 08-1992
Langue : ANGLAIS
192p. Hardback
Etat : Disponible chez l'?diteur (d?lai de livraison : 10 jours)


A volume of essays on the themes of tradition, 
oral communication versus literal communication, 
Wittgenstein, and computers. The later 
Wittgenstein is shown to be on the one hand a 
traditionalist, and on the other hand, along with 
Heidegger, a philosopher of postmodern -- 
secondary -- orality, yearning for bygone, 
premodern times -- the times of primary orality. 
Under conditions of primary orality traditions 
fulfilled the specific cognitive role of 
conserving information -- a role subsequently 
taken over by writing, and today by electronic 
data processing. The message of the volume is 
that the Western values of individuality and 
critical thinking are intimately bound up with 
the technology of writing. It offers arguments in 
favour of the standards and techniques of 
classical education even under conditions of, 
indeed as a foundation for, the emerging computer culture.

Preface. 1. Wittgenstein's New Traditionalism. 2. 
Wittgenstein 1929-31: Conservatism and 
Jewishness. 3. Collective Reason: Roots of a 
Sociological Theory of Knowledge. 4. Some Marxian 
Themes in the Age of Information. 5. Tradition 
and Practical Knowledge. 6. `Tradition' and 
Related Terms: A Semantic Survey. 7. Historical 
Consciousness in the Computer Age. 8. On 
Esperanto: Usage and Contrivance in Language. 9. 
Heidegger and Wittgenstein. 10. Writing and the 
Private Language Argument. Bibliography. Indices.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I should look this up some time. Wittgenstein 
hated Esperanto as much as he hated Carnap, and 
for the same reason, i.e. a hatred of reason. In 
Culture and Value Wittgenstein, as a language 
mystic, expresses his visceral disgust at the 
very existence of Esperanto. Such nausea at the 
very thought of Esperanto is characteristic of 
right-wing thought, and one can be a 
right-winger--i.e. irrationalist-- in philosophy, 
even without being one in politics.



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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Sat Sep  5 10:14:58 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 10:14:58 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] another Esperanto of theology?
Message-ID: <E1Mjw5o-0001eC-3K@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Nothing short of a new language of discourse?a 
kind of philosophical Esperanto?is
necessary if we aspire to this level of exchange. 
Ideally, this language (unlike
Esperanto) would not have been developed 
specifically for the sake of facilitating or
perpetuating the comparative discourse itself. 
That sort of language would be too
aritificial, provisional and functional to be 
ultimately meaningful. If, rather, the language
of discourse were an independent creation, one 
that each of the parties individually
simply happened upon in a sort of happy 
existential coincidence, the possibility for
discourse would be facilitated markedly by the 
relative neutrality of its terms. My project
will be to show that the languages of German 
idealism, phenomenology and religious
existentialism, all of which both Tanabe and 
Soloveitchik knew fluently, provides the
occasion for such a happy coincidence, making Soloveitchik and Tanabe ideal
candidates for participation in a study that 
might be the beginnings of a Jewish-
Buddhist inter-faith dialectic.

http://necessarydetours.com/files/4-INTRODUCTION.html


---------------------------------

Where does it end? The well of obscurantist drivel is apparently bottomless.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

   The Tao does not speak.
   The Tao does not blame.
   The Tao does not take sides.
   The Tao has no expectations.
   The Tao demands nothing of others.
   The Tao is not Jewish.

--  David M. Bader, Zen Judaism: For You, A Little Enlightenment  
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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Sat Sep  5 10:32:14 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 10:32:14 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Tolkein, Heidegger, Esperanto
Message-ID: <E1MjwLM-0002W7-3f@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

The Philosopher and the Philologist: J.R.R. Tolkien, Martin 
Heidegger, and Poetic Language
Dawn Catanach
http://www.unm.edu/~tolkien/Greybook/vol2/The%20Philosopher%20and%20the%20Philologist.pdf

Some disparaging remarks by Tolkein on Esperanto are quoted here. But 
I've read elsewhere that Tolkein had a favorable attitude toward 
Esperanto, and even learned it.
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From volcheck at acm.org  Sat Sep  5 22:18:16 2009
From: volcheck at acm.org (Emil Volcheck)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 22:18:16 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] WordPress in Eo!
Message-ID: <f0ddf5c00909051918j42b10c30mc19122858996bf0b@mail.gmail.com>

Esperanto gajnas pli kaj pli...

Jen, esperanta versio de WordPress,
la plej bona kaj plej fama blog-sistemo!

http://eo.wordpress.org/  .

--Emil

-- 
Emil Volcheck
volcheck at acm.org
http://EmilVolcheck.com/


From dave at daviddougherty.net  Mon Sep  7 02:48:52 2009
From: dave at daviddougherty.net (David Dougherty)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 23:48:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Membroj] =?utf-8?q?Nova_Retejo_Lan=C4=89ita!?=
Message-ID: <198384.74412.qm@web1113.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com>

Mi ?ojas anonci ke ni nun havas propran ttt-ejon sub la nomo de nia klubo!  ?i aperas kaj en la angla lingvo kaj en Esperanto. Ni pensas ke multaj homoj kiuj trovos ?in estos novuloj kiuj interesi?as pri Esperanto kaj volas informi?i pri ?i. Ni havas bazinformojn pri Esperanto kaj pri la historio kaj agadoj de nia Societo. ?i anka? montras ?iun ilon kaj manieron por sekvi niajn agadojn kaj eventojn kaj por kontakti nin. Por ni tio estas granda pa?o por montri al la mondo ke ni ekzistas!

Multajn dankojn al Jim Ryan kaj al Emil Volchek!

Da?jo

I'm happy to announce that we now have our own website under the name of our club! It appears both in English and in Esperanto. We think that many people who will find it will be new people who are interested in Esperanto and want to find information about it. We have basic information about Esperanto and about the history and activities of our Society. It also shows every tool and way to follow our activities and events and to contact us. For us this is a major step to show the world that we exist!

And many thanks to Jim Ryan and Emil Volchek!

Dave


From dave at daviddougherty.net  Mon Sep  7 02:50:56 2009
From: dave at daviddougherty.net (David Dougherty)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 23:50:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Membroj] Adreso!
Message-ID: <268817.67213.qm@web1110.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com>

Nature estos helpema scii la adreson de nia nova ttt-ejo.

http://www.esperantodc.org


From ejl at gwu.edu  Mon Sep  7 09:02:59 2009
From: ejl at gwu.edu (E. James Lieberman)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 09:02:59 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] =?utf-8?q?Nova_Retejo_Lan=C4=89ita!?=
In-Reply-To: <198384.74412.qm@web1113.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com>
References: <198384.74412.qm@web1113.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4D67ACEF-0631-4061-9573-E7C84E48E46A@gwu.edu>

Mi gratulas kaj dankas pro la ttt-ejo.  Nur la forta flaveco iom  
?enas. Kial ne meti pli ne?tralan koloron?

Jim L

From davegaines at aol.com  Mon Sep  7 12:54:55 2009
From: davegaines at aol.com (David Gaines)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 12:54:55 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Nova Retejo Lan?ita!
Message-ID: <b96f429c0909070954n609e5e93k4b2d652261cb6c18@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 12:00 PM, <membroj-request at esperantosocieto.org>wrote:

Mi gratulas kaj dankas pro la ttt-ejo.  Nur la forta flaveco iom ?enas. Kial
> ne meti pli ne?tralan koloron?
>

Ankau mi gratulas kaj dankas. Sed ankau mi samopinias pri la flavegeco.  :)
Ankau, kial ne metu la menuajn ligojn cxe la komenco de la pagxo, de la
maldekstra gxis la dekstra?

dg
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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Mon Sep  7 19:21:16 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 19:21:16 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] =?iso-8859-1?q?Nova_Retejo_Lan=C4=89ita!?=
In-Reply-To: <198384.74412.qm@web1113.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com>
References: <198384.74412.qm@web1113.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E1MknYM-0001Er-Ei@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Gratulon al la laborintoj pri inauguro de cxi tiu renovigita retejo.

La eksteraj ligoj estas bonaj kaj eble ampleksigendaj.

Estus ankau utile iam plu detaligi la historion 
de la Vasxingtona klubo. Je la malnova retejo 
almenau estis unu-du malnovaj bultenoj. Toi ne 
estas adekvata reprezentajxo de pasinta aktivado, 
sed ja estas informoj el la pasinteco kiujn oni povus konservi.

Pri la sociemaj retejoj: Esperantujo estas vide 
logema, sed kial uzu Esperantujon aldone al Ipernity?


At 02:48 AM 9/7/2009, David Dougherty wrote:
>Mi ??ojas anonci ke ni nun havas propran 
>ttt-ejon sub la nomo de nia klubo!  ??i aperas 
>kaj en la angla lingvo kaj en Esperanto. Ni 
>pensas ke multaj homoj kiuj trovos ??in estos 
>novuloj kiuj interesi??as pri Esperanto kaj 
>volas informi??i pri ??i. Ni havas bazinformojn 
>pri Esperanto kaj pri la historio kaj agadoj de 
>nia Societo. ??i anka?? montras ??iun ilon kaj 
>manieron por sekvi niajn agadojn kaj eventojn 
>kaj por kontakti nin. Por ni tio estas granda 
>pa??o por montri al la mondo ke ni ekzistas! 
>Multajn dankojn al Jim Ryan kaj al Emil Volchek! 
>Da??jo I'm happy to announce that we now have 
>our own website under the name of our club! It 
>appears both in English and in Esperanto. We 
>think that many people who will find it will be 
>new people who are interested in Esperanto and 
>want to find information about it. We have basic 
>information about Esperanto and about the 
>history and activities of our Society. It also 
>shows every tool and way to follow our 
>activities and events and to contact us. For us 
>this is a major step to show the world that we 
>exist! And many thanks to Jim Ryan and Emil 
>Volchek! Dave 
>_______________________________________________ 
>Membroj mailing list 
>Membroj at esperantosocieto.org 
>http://esperantosocieto.org/mailman/listinfo/membroj_esperantosocieto.org



From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Tue Sep  8 20:25:30 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 20:25:30 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] nova retejo -- retligoj
Message-ID: <E1MlB27-0005dX-CI@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

La pagxo de ligiloj cxe esperantodc.org estas 
aparte ulita en kategorioj kiujn mi mem ne 
suficxe esploris, ekz. podkastoj & 
radioprogramoj.  Mi trarigardas propran 
retgvidilon kaj aldonos al gxi. Ankau, jen 
konsiderindaj rekomendoj por aldoni al la societa 
ligpagxo, ne tro fakaj, mi esperas.


GXENERALAJ RETEJOJ

<http://www.esperanto.net>Esperanto.Net
Introduction and guide to the world of Esperanto

<http://www.eventoj.hu/>La Esperanto-centro: <http://www.eventoj.hu/>EVENTOJ

ORGANIZOJ

<http://www.tejo.org/en>TEJO | Tutmonda Esperantista Junulara Organizo

LUDOJ

<http://www.autodidactproject.org/bib/esperanto-ludoj.html>Esperanto 
? Ludoj ? Retgvidilo (Esperanto Games Web Guide)

BELETRO

<http://donh.best.vwh.net/Esperanto/Literaturo/literaturo.html>Literaturo 
en Esperanto (Don Harlow)

<http://esperanto.net/literaturo/index.html>Originala literaturo Esperanta

<http://www.everk.it/>Akademio<http://www.everk.it/> Literatura de Esperanto

ELSXUTEBLAJ LIBROJ & GAZETOJ

<http://www.ipernity.com/doc/deodaro/album>Albumoj de Zhang Xuesong

<http://www.gazetejo.org/>La Esperanta Gazetejo

VORTAROJ

<http://www.ipernity.com/doc/deodaro/2960070/in/album/85535>Inversa 
Vortaro - enkonduko & 
<http://www.ipernity.com/doc/deodaro/2960068/in/album/85535>Inversa Vortaro

<http://www.uea.org/dokumentoj/bibliografioj.html>Bibliografioj 
de E-vortaroj kaj terminaroj

ESPLORADO

<http://esperantic.org/>Esperantic Studies Foundation

<http://www.planlingvoj.ch/>Plansprachen.ch
Informoj pri la evoluo de internaciaj planlingvoj 
kaj la progresoj de la internacia lingva komunikado

<http://www.all-science-fair-projects.com/science_fair_projects_encyclopedia/Category:Esperanto>Science 
Fair Projects - Category:Esperanto

<http://allegro.onb.ac.at/cgi-bin/allegro/maske.pl?db=esperanto&lang=esp>Austria 
Nacia Biblioteko - datumbanko TROVANTO - sercxmenuo

<http://www.esperantoland.de/ebea/>Elektronika 
Bibliografio de Esperanto-Artikoloj (EBEA) - EsperantoLand
Enhavo: . 8000 gazetaj artikoloj, en Esperanto a 
naciaj lingvoj, ekde la jaro 1890.
Temoj estas diversaj aspektoj de Esperanto, ia 
historio, movado kaj komunumo. Beletro plejparte mankas.

<http://www.uea.org/dokumentoj/artikoloj.php>Katalogo 
de artikoloj en E-periodajoj
Datumbazo da artikoloj el 74 periodajxoj diversspecaj.


-----------------

Notu, pri libroservoj:

<http://katalogo.uea.org/>La Katalogo de UEA

pri Esperanto-blogoj:

<http://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blogo>Blogo - Vikipedio (kun bloglisto)

Kaj notu ke cxe Project Gutenberg oni povas rekete sercxi Esperanton:

http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/languages/eo
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From dave at daviddougherty.net  Tue Sep  8 23:22:24 2009
From: dave at daviddougherty.net (David Dougherty)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 20:22:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Membroj] =?utf-8?b?S2Fma3VuacSdbyDEiWktZGltYW7EiWUvQ29mZmVlIEdh?=
 =?utf-8?q?thering_this_Sunday?=
Message-ID: <181858.52586.qm@web1103.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com>

Nun estas tempo denove por nia kutima kafkuni?o. ?i okazos ?i-diman?e, la 13-an de septembro je a 14-a horo, en la kutima loko (Cosi-Capitol Hill, 301 Pennsylvania Avenue SE Washington, DC). Kiel kutime, ?iuj estas bonvenaj praktiki la internacian lingvon.

Ni diskutos la organizadon kaj planadon de la venonta nacia kongreso, kiun ni gastigos en Va?ingtono en la jaro 2010. Krom tio (kiel kutime), ni povas babili pri ?io kion ni volas.

Da?jo Do?erti anka? klarigos nian novan retejon iomete. Ni anka? diskutos la ideon de festi la centkvindekjari?on de Zamenhof venontjare.
----------------------------------------------------------------
It's time again for our usual monthly coffee gathering. It will happen this Sunday, September 13th, at 2:00 PM, at the usual location (Cosi-Capitol Hill, 301 Pennsylvania Avenue SE Washington, DC). As usual, everybody is welcome to come practice the international language.

We will discuss the planning and organization of the coming national congress, which we will host in DC in 2010. Other than that, we can (as usual) chat about anything we like.

David Dougherty will also briefly explain our new website. We shall also discuss the idea of celebrating the 150th anniversary of Zamenhof's birth next year.


From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Wed Sep  9 11:21:22 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 11:21:22 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Taslima Nasrin en Esperanto
Message-ID: <E1MlP18-0002FJ-3n@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

"Mi estas ateisto. Mi ne kredas je preg^oj, mi 
kredas je laboro. Kaj mia laboro estas verkado. Mia skribilo estas mia armilo."

         -- Taslima Nasrin (verkisto kaj feministo)


<http://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taslima_Nasrin>Taslima Nasrin

<http://www.everk.it/index.php?id=19,170,0,0,1,0>Du 
poemoj de Taslima Nasrin (trad. Gunnar G?llmo)

<http://r.platteau.free.fr/TradukitajPoemoj.htm#La_nesonorinta_sonoro>La 
nesonorinta sonoro (poemo)

<http://r.platteau.free.fr/prozajtradukajxoj.html#Franca_Nacia_Asembleo>Parolado 
eldirita antau la Franca Nacia Asembleo la 16/6/2001

<http://www.gazetoteko.eu/ateo/ateo07.pdf>Citajxo 
de Nasrin en Ateismo, N? 7-a Aprilo 2007 [nova serio] (v. supre)

<http://www.delbarrio.eu/manifesto12.htm>MANIFESTO: 
Kune alfronti la novan totalismon

<http://groups.google.hu/group/soc.culture.esperanto/msg/4f39cdb7d9fa3e64>Manifesto 
kontrauklerika islam-celata (2006)

<http://www.hraicjk.org/esperanto/31_auxgusto.html>Bangladesxo 
interdiktas trian Tasliman libron (2002)

<http://www.iheu.org/node/340>Separation of Religion and State (Esperanto)
Direktoron de IHEU Babu Gogineni intervjuas Christian Eyschen, 2003.03.09
Tradukis en Esperanton Libre Pensee Francaise


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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Wed Sep  9 11:51:53 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 11:51:53 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] du esperantistaj verkistoj diskutas siajn sintenojn
Message-ID: <E1MlPUd-0004Qq-CW@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

La unika situacio de esperanta verkisto
de Marjorie Boulton
Reviziita versio de prelego prezentita en la 
Brita Kongreso, Felixstowe, la 3an de majo, 2004
http://www.everk.it/index.php?id=18,87,0,0,1,0

?Mia nomo ne estas sufic^e poezia?
Istv?n Ertl intervjuas Gaston Waringhien
Budapes^ta Informilo, 11-12/1990 (n-ro 241-242), p 1-3
http://www.everk.it/index.php?id=21,75,0,0,1,0
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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Wed Sep  9 19:54:01 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 19:54:01 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] William Auld (6 Nov. 1924 - 11 Sept. 2006)
Message-ID: <E1MlX1D-0007cK-NC@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

La tria datreveno de la morto de William Auld proksimigxas. Hodiau mi 
gxisdatigis mian memorpagxon:

http://www.autodidactproject.org/bib/auld.html

Mi aldonis ligojn al anglaj tradukoj de verkoj de Auld EL Esperanto:

<http://www.everk.it/index.php?id=19,78,0,0,1,0>Julia sur Pandatario: 
Julia on Pandataria (translated from Esperanto by Roy MacDonald)

<http://www.autodidactproject.org/bib/The%20infant%20Race%20%28tradukita%20de%20Girvan%20McKay%29>La 
Infana 
Raso<http://www.autodidactproject.org/bib/The%20infant%20Race%20%28tradukita%20de%20Girvan%20McKay%29>: 
The infant Race (translated from Esperanto by Girvan McKay)

Kaj jen plua subdivido de la retpagxaro cxe la Akademio Literatura de 
Esperanto:

<http://www.everk.it/index.php?auld>William Auld, la esperantlingva 
Nobel-kandidato por literaturo (pagxaro)

<http://www.everk.it/index.php?id=31,117,0,0,1,0>Bibliografio
<http://www.everk.it/index.php?id=31,118,0,0,1,0>Eseoj
<http://www.everk.it/index.php?id=31,120,0,0,1,0>Verkoj tradukitaj al 
naciaj lingvoj
<http://www.everk.it/index.php?id=31,119,0,0,1,0>Artikoloj pri li
<http://www.everk.it/index.php?id=31,122,0,0,1,0>Poemoj por li
<http://www.everk.it/index.php?id=31,123,0,0,1,0>Liaj verkoj recenzitaj

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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Thu Sep 10 10:47:54 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:47:54 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] http://www.freeweb.hu: ne alklaku!
Message-ID: <E1MlkyI-0000gs-PL@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Retejo Eventoj estas kompromitita:

"This web site at www[dot]freeweb[dot]hu/eventoj has been reported as 
an attack site and has been blocked based on your security preferences."

Se oni konas la retejmastron, oni kontaktu lin por purigi sian retejon.
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From jedmeltzer at gmail.com  Wed Sep 16 17:00:37 2009
From: jedmeltzer at gmail.com (Jed Meltzer)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:00:37 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] interesa blogo
Message-ID: <28bd874f0909161400y47e98712g7fa890be90759dda@mail.gmail.com>

Ne vere rilatas al Esperanto, sed mi jxus malkovris cxi tiun blogon, kaj mi
kredas ke multaj aliuloj en cxi tiu listo sxatos gxin.  Ecx se vi konas
nenion pri la hebrea lingvo, multaj el la klarigoj temas pri vortoj kiuj
estas tre konataj gxenerale en Okcidenta kulturo pro la biblio, kaj la ligoj
inter ili estas fascinaj.
http://www.balashon.com/

Speciale, malsupre en la pagxo, aperas sekcio pri vortoj de la Pesahxa
sedero.  Cxar unu el ni en Vasxingtono okupigxas pri evoluigxanta (sed jam
tre bona) Esperanta traduko de la Pesahxa libro, mi kredas ke tiu parto
estos tre interesa.
Krome, la libro kiun verkis nia Erinja trovigxas cxi tie:

www.yksi.org/~erin/Hagada_Verda_Stelo.pdf
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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Thu Sep 17 09:45:41 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 09:45:41 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Blake en Esperanto, refoje
Message-ID: <E1MoHL7-0007pr-G0@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Mi lastatempe hazarde trovis dosieron da poemoj kiujn mi iam celis 
traduki Esperanten. En tiu dosiero estas poemoj de angla poeto 
William Blake, kiun mi fotokopiis antau du au tri jardekoj por cxi 
tiu celo. Cxiuj poemoj devenas de Notlibro de 1793 de Blake, 
inkluzive de malneto de publikigitaj poemoj kaj de poemoj kiuj neniam 
publikigxis dum la vivtempo de Blake.

Mi revenas al mia bibliografio pri Blake en Esperanto:

http://www.autodidactproject.org/bib/blakebib-espo.html

Mi rimarkas ke estas tri tradukoj ne en mia posedo:

"Por vidi la teron en eta sablero" [To see a world in a grain of 
sand], trad. Farnsworth Wright, Amerika Esperantisto, IX-2, 1911.

"La monahxo de Charlemaine" ["I saw a Monk of Charlemaine"], trad. 
G.T. & R.R., Kvakera Esperantisto, n-ro 66, 1993, p. 4.

"Kiu al si la gxojon ligas" [He who binds to himself a joy], trad. 
Dafne Lister, La Brita Esperantisto, 1987, p. 342.

Estus tre utile se iu povus sendi al mi kopiojn de cxi tiuj tradukoj.


La unua estis plurfoje tradukitaj al Esperanto. La lasta fakte 
devenas de la Notlibro de 1793, kaj estas en mia listo de tradukotaj 
poemoj. La dua devenas de Notlibro de 1800-1803 kaj publikigxis en la 
poemego "Jerusalemo".

Ankau en mia listo estas poemo kiu mi mem tradukis:

"<http://www.autodidactproject.org/my/blakefury.html>Pro Mia Venta 
Furioz'" [I feard the fury of my wind], trad. R. Dumain

Do, kiuj estas la ceteraj poemoj en mia listo, el la Notlibro de 1793 
[lau nombrado de Keynes]?

#7: I asked a thief to steal me a peach [Mi petis al sxtelisto, 
sxtelu por mi pecxon]

#8: I heard an Angel singing (Mercy, Pity, Peace) [Mi audis angxelon 
kanti (indulgo, kompato, paco)

#16: Thou hast a lap full of seed [Cia pelvo plenplenas da semo]

#53: The look of love alarms [Aspekto de amor' alarmas]

#56: Motto to the Songs of Innocence & of Experience [Moto por la 
Kanzonoj de Naivo kaj de Sperto]

Do eble mi denove surprenu la taskon de tradukado.

Aldone al mia bibliografio kaj tradukoj, mi ankau publikigis 
memorartikolon pri Blake:

"William Blake 250-jara: Memor-festa Omagxo," Kontakto, n-ro 222 
(2007: 6), p. 9-10.

La malneto trovigxas cxi tie:

<http://www.autodidactproject.org/my/blake250-espo.html>William Blake 
250-jara: Kulturpolitiko kaj la Monda Disvastigo de Beletro

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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Thu Sep 17 10:52:38 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 10:52:38 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Du vidpunktoj pri Esperanto
Message-ID: <4AB24D36.2040501@autodidactproject.org>

. . . t.e., du poemetoj verkitaj de R. Dumain, kun kontrau(aj sentoj:

*  LA INTERNA IDEO*

La diamantoj en mallumo furzas.
Koncize la promeso via gluis
koverton sen enhav'. Juvelo-bruo
s^topis la kavernon per mal-truo.

Kvazau( tempo haltis sur pejzag^o,
c^arm' antikva disordigis sensojn.
Herold' finfine blagis. C^i romano
nin distris mise for de l'televido.

(/Verkite je 11-12 februaro 1995/)

          *  *  *  *  *

*     Adoptita Mama Los^en
  (Poemeto por la Zamenhof-tago)*

Ho, orfo de Eu(ropo orienta,
Kiel mi vin vartas ame,
Kontrau( malkompata frido venta--
Mi bezonas s^irmon same.

--- la 15-an de decembro 2007

(Mama Los^en = karesnomo de la jida lingvo: "Panjo Lingvo")

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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Thu Sep 17 23:22:47 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:22:47 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: [Membroj] Duke Ellington Esperanto reference
Message-ID: <21830820.1253244168111.JavaMail.root@whwamui-deputy.pas.sa.earthlink.net>

"The scope of music is immense and infinite . . . It is the 'esperanto' of the world." -- Duke Ellington, Music Is My Mistress.

Stumbled upon this while researching Esperanto and DC history. I'm digging up some material which should be of use for next year's conference.




From ejl at gwu.edu  Fri Sep 18 09:27:29 2009
From: ejl at gwu.edu (E. James Lieberman)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 09:27:29 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Duke Ellington Esperanto reference
In-Reply-To: <21830820.1253244168111.JavaMail.root@whwamui-deputy.pas.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <21830820.1253244168111.JavaMail.root@whwamui-deputy.pas.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <DC925EC5-432B-4BF3-B65B-EAE97723ABAA@gwu.edu>

Duke Ellington sa?e pravas. Esperanto estas la dua internacia  
komunikilo.

Jim L 

From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Mon Sep 21 11:12:41 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:12:41 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Epistle to Bill Auld (poem)
Message-ID: <E1MpkZn-0001At-KL@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

<http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/auld-spokenstate.html>From A 
Spoken State: An Epistle to Bill Auld by Stuart A. Paterson (1993.02.16)

Poem in English dedicated to William Auld (in his lifetime). From La 
Brita Esperanto.
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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Mon Sep 21 19:08:09 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:08:09 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] William Auld interviewed on Scottish radio
Message-ID: <E1Mprzx-0006I5-5i@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

<http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/auld-interviews.html>Interviews 
with William Auld: Broadcasts on Radio Scotland (1993)

For you, a little more Auld.

I think I'll also scan some translation that Auld made, into English 
from other Esperanto original poets, e.g. G.E. Maura (Gaston Waringhien).

__________________________________________________________

"Oni vivas skote, au kote." -- William Auld to me, Barrie Ontario, 1975

"If it's not Scottish, it's crrrrrrrrrrrrap!" -- Mike Meyers
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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Mon Sep 21 17:59:46 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:59:46 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Cythia Ozick rakontas pri la jida, Esperanto, Ro, Volapuk
Message-ID: <E1Mpqvl-0007Aw-IM@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Mi menciis ie cxi tiun novelon de juda usona verkistino Cynthia Ozick:

<http://www.autodidactproject.org/quote/yiddish.html>Cynthia 
Ozick on "Envy; Or, Yiddish In America" (On Labor 
& Poetry) ["Envio, au, la Jida en Usono"]

Sed pli frue en la rakonto, sxi mencias ankau 
Esperanton & aliajn artefaritajn lingvojn, kiel 
mi jxus re-eltrovis. Do, por anglalingvanoj, jen cxerpajxoj:

<http://www.autodidactproject.org/quote/yiddish2.html>Cynthia 
Ozick on "Envy; Or, Yiddish In America" (The 
Writer Jokes in Hell, with Esperanto, Ro, & Volap?k)
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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Fri Sep 25 09:38:57 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:38:57 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Joni Mitchell en Esperanto
Message-ID: <E1MrB1P-0004dp-VI@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Mi havas Esperantan tradukon--"Ambauflanke"--de la kanzono "Both 
Sides Now" de Joni Mitchell, sed mankas al mi la nomo de la 
tradukinto kaj bibliografiaj (se ekzistas) detaloj. Cxu iu povus 
transdoni la bezonatajn detalojn?



From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Fri Sep 25 10:05:41 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:05:41 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] tradukoj de Esperantaj poemoj anglalingven de William Auld
Message-ID: <E1MrBRJ-0005PF-Gf@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Tradukoj de originalaj Esperantaj poemojn nacilingven povas esti 
utila enkondukilo al Esperanta beletro. Mi havas kelkajn malnovajn 
numerojn de La Brita Esperantisto, kun dorskovrilaj anglaj tradukoj 
de Esperantaj poemoj. Do mi enretigis la anglajn tradukojn fare de 
William Auld, kiu estas pli konata, aldone al originala verkado, pro 
tradukoj el la angla lingvo.

<http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/maura-auld.html>Poems from 
Esperanto: from "In Winter's Shell" / el "En Konko de Vintro"
by Georges E. Maura (pseudonym of Gaston Waringhien), translated by 
William Auld

"<http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/newell2.html>The Red Tram, 
or: Springtime in London"
by L. N. M. Newell, translated by William Auld

<http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/dejong-auld.html>Poems from 
Esperanto: "Stubbornness" / "Obstino"; "Au Clair de la Lune"
by Rejna de Jong, translated by William Auld

Mi korespondis kun Rejna de Jong dum pluarj jaroj, kaj sxi kontribuis 
al mia revuo Ateismo. Mi ne povis trovi aliajn sxiajn poemojn 
interrete, do jen.

------------------------

Ankau, el La Brita Esperantisto, jen:

<http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/auld-interviews.html>Interviews 
with William Auld: Broadcasts on Radio Scotland (1993)

<http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/auld-spokenstate.html>From A 
Spoken State: An Epistle to Bill Auld by Stuart A. Paterson (1993.02.16)
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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Sat Sep 26 10:16:58 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 10:16:58 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Upton Sinclair en Esperanto
Message-ID: <4ABE225A.9050601@autodidactproject.org>

Nun c^e mia retejo:

Upton Sinclair, "La pastra mensogo 
<http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/kontraudio/pastramensogo.html>," 
el angla lingvo kun au(tora permeso tradukis Karl Fr?ding, en: /Kontrau( 
Dio! Ateista Krestomatieto 
<http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/kontraudio/enhavo.html> 
/(Leipzig: SAT-Eldona Fako Kooperativa, 1925), p. 5.

Kelkaj verkoj de Upton Sinclair estis tradukitaj Esperanten:

    * /Jimmie Higgins./ Tradukis lau( la angla originalo Karl Fr?ding.
      Paris: Sennacieca Asocio Tutmonda, 1934. 369 pag^oj.
    * /Petrolo! (Oil!)/ Romano. Tradukis William Bailey. London:
      Esperanto Publishing Company. 2 volumoj.
    * /La gnomau(to.
      <http://i-espero.info/files/elibroj/eo%20-%20sinclair,%20upton%20-%20la%20gnoma%C5%ADto.pdf>/

Lau( /The New York Times/ 
<http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/bday/0920.html>, 
Sinclair mem lernis Esperanton.

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From esperantodc at gmail.com  Mon Sep 28 00:44:17 2009
From: esperantodc at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Esperanto_Societo_de_Va=C5=9Dintono_DK?=)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 00:44:17 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Fwd: [Fwd: [Zamenhofologo] Esperanto-USA 58a Landa
	Kongreso]
In-Reply-To: <a0b24ec70909272133n7ad3c092pdd6fdc19a89295ad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4ABDACC6.5070601@kava-pech.cz>
	<a0b24ec70909272133n7ad3c092pdd6fdc19a89295ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a0b24ec70909272144r33628d29h54527d4362275059@mail.gmail.com>

Saluton Va?ingtonaj Esperantistoj!

Tiu ?i homo ?i-sabate sendis al nia kluba retpo?tokonto (
esperantodc at gmail.com) sugeston por prelegon kaj anka? demandojn pri kostoj
de lo?i kaj voja?i tie ?i. Mi ankora? ne ekzakte certas kiu plej pretas
respondi, sed se iu kapablas, bonvolu respondi al li kiam eblas!

David Dougherty (kontrolante la kluban retpo?ton).


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Petr Chrdle <chrdle at kava-pech.cz>
Date: 2009/9/26
Subject: [Fwd: [Zamenhofologo] Esperanto-USA 58a Landa Kongreso]
To: esperantodc at gmail.com


Saluton,

mi reagas al pli suba anonco pri la 58-a Landa Kongreso de Esperanto-USA.
Cxar momente (espereble tio dauxros) la flugoj al Usono estas relative
favorprezaj, mi iom pripensas ankaux foje viziti Usonon kaj do volonte mi
ligus tion kun la cxeesto de la kongreso.

Mi ne estas Zamenhofologo kaj ne kompetentas proponi kontribuon tiuteman,
sed se mi venos, mi povus (se estos intereso) proponi iun eksterteman
prelegon, ekzemple "Profesiaj aplikoj de Esperanto kaj gxiaj specifaj
trajtoj" (espereble gxis tiam aperos dua eldono de mia samnoma verketo, kiun
mi momente aktualigas) aux "Ekoturismo" (pri mia dua hobio apud Esperanto,
pri kiu mi kelkfoje prelegis, sed neniam ekster Euxropo) aux pri
Esperanto-muzeo en Svitavy kaj agado ligita kun gxi.

Sed antaux ol decidi, cxu mi efektive povos aligxi (kaj cxu sola aux kun mia
kunulino), mi volus scii, kun kiaj elspezoj mi devus kalkuli, cxar miaj
rimedoj estas ege limigitaj. Cxu jam eblas ricevi iujn informojn rilate al
la kotizoj, tranoktkostoj, plej favorpreza eblo de movigxo inter Washington
D.C. kaj Novjorko (enlanda flugo, trajno, buso), la programon kja prezon de
eventuala antauxkongresa aux postkongresa programo (se estos).

Antauxdankon por via respondo.

Amikajn salutojn el Cxehxio al vi sendas Petro Chrdle


-------- P?vodn? zpr?va --------
P?edm?t:        [Zamenhofologo] Esperanto-USA 58a Landa Kongreso
Datum:  Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:17:31 -0400
Od:     Ralph Dumain <rdumain at autodidactproject.org>
P?eposl?no - Komu:      zamenhofologo at googlegroups.com
Kopie:  ehist at yahoogroups.com



Jen anonco:

Esperanto-USA 58a Landa Kongreso
"Lando de Libereco"
Vasxingtono, DK / Washington, DC
28a-31a de Majo, 2010
Hyatt Regency Hotel
Bethesda, MD

Kunvenu en Vasxingtono, DK, por soleni la 100an datrevenon de la UK de 1910,
kiam L.L. Zamenhof vizitis Vasxingtonon. Ni bonvenigas sugestojn por
prelegoj kaj aliaj programeroj.

Pli da informo baldau haveblos cxe esperantodc.org
Kontaktu: esperantodc at gmail.com

-------------------------

Notu ke tiuj datoj ampleksas la usonan ferion "Memortago"n, en memoro de
mortintaj soldatoj, sed pli grave, la komenco de la somera sezono, kun
eksterdomaj nagxujoj kaj rostado de viando.

Nu, cxar Zamenhof kaptas la temon de cxi tiu landa kongreso, mi esperas ke
iuj kleruloj partoprenos la kongreson, kaj ke iu(j) proponos  prelegon--en
Esperanto au en la angla--pri Zamenhof kaj lia tempo.

Mi ne estas oficiala ano de la organiza komitato, sed mi sxatus starigi
altnivelan programon. Mi forte malsxatas klisxajn kaj sxablonajn
propagandajxojn pri Zamenhof au Esperanto. Ekz. kelkaj proponas ligi la
revon de Esperanto al la "usona revo"--kio je mi estas stulta absurdajxo.
Cetere, mi ne adoras la prelegon de Zamenhof, cxar fakte, Usono ne estis
lando de libereco, precipe ne por la negroj kiuj suferis pro rasapartigo en
Vasxingtono, la ceteraj sudaj provincoj, kaj efektive la tuta lando.
Zamenhof, "hebreo el la getto", ial neglektis cxi tiun memevidentan fakton.
Do, anstatau la kutima infaneca esperanto-kultismo, mi preferus pli
objektivan kaj kleran ekzamenon de Zamenhof kaj Esperanto en la socia
kunteksto de 1910. Ekz., historiisto povus informi interesatan publikon pri
la etoso de Vasxingtono (kaj aliaj usonaj urboj kiujn Zamenhof vizitis) kaj
la reagoj de fremdaj vizitantoj tiutempaj--ekz. Zamenhof, sed ankau
aliaj--al Usono, kun atento au tio kion ili konstatis, and kion ne.  Eble iu
Esperantologio povus diri ion pri la stato de la Esperanto-movado, neutrala
kaj neneutrala, en 1910. (Ekz., jam estis usonaj esperantistoj-anarkiistoj
kiuj eble ne konsentis kun Zamenhof.)


--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
Zamenhofologo
http://groups.google.com/group/zamenhofologo/
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Mon Sep 28 10:41:47 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:41:47 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Langston Hughes & Latinamerika Memuaro
Message-ID: <4AC0CB2B.3030404@autodidactproject.org>

Latinamerika Memuaro estis kultura revuo el Kolombio, kies sesa kaj 
lasta numero eldonig^is en 1989. Por pluaj da informoj v. mian blogeron 
c^e Ipernity <http://www.ipernity.com/blog/69767/188317?t=76547&c=1&s=edit>
kaj alian c^e G^irafo 
<http://gxirafo.blogspot.com/2009/09/latinamerika-memuaro-revizitata.html>. 
Mi j^us enretigis c^i tiun aferon:

Kvar Poemoj de Langston Hughes 
<http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/hughes-4poemoj.html>, tradukis 
Carlos A. Castrill?n, /Latinamerika Memuaro/, n-ro 5, januaro-aprilo 
1989, p. 13-14.

Lau( mia scio, c^i tiuj estas la unuaj publikigitaj tradukoj Esperanten 
el c^i tiu s^losila negra usona poeto (1-a de februaro 1902 - 22-a de 
majo 1967).

Dum la semajnfino mi tradukis alian poemon de Langston Hughes:

"Adiau( Kristo <http://www.autodidactproject.org/my/hughes-kristo.html>".

C^i tiuj poemoj ne reprezentas la tutan gamon de liaj verkoj, kiuj 
cetere ampleksas plurajn g^enrojn. Temas c^i tie plejparte pri la plej 
politikemaj kaj revoluciemaj poemoj, ekz. el la 1920aj au( 1930aj jaroj.
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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Mon Sep 28 10:49:58 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:49:58 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Borges en Esperanto: retrovo
Message-ID: <4AC0CD16.3090004@autodidactproject.org>

Mi iam kompilis informojn pri tradukoj el la verkaro de Jorge Luis 
Borges Esperanten:

Borges en Esperanto [c^e mia blogo G^irafo] 
<http://gxirafo.blogspot.com/search/label/Jorge%20Luis%20Borges>

Mi j^us retrovis kaj enretigis forgesitan Esperantan tradukojn de la 
hajkaro kaj tankaaro de Borges, kiuj aperis en la iama kultura gazeto el 
Kolombio, /Latinamerika Memuaro/:

Hajkoj kaj Tankaoj 
<http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/borges8-espohajk.html> de Jorge 
Luis Borges, tradukis Carlos A. Castrill?n



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From rdumain at autodidactproject.org  Tue Sep 29 15:48:05 2009
From: rdumain at autodidactproject.org (Ralph Dumain)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 15:48:05 -0400
Subject: [Membroj] Kvar Planlingvoj Kreitaj de Virinoj
Message-ID: <E1Msigz-0007yv-3R@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Nu je mia retejo:

"Kvar Planlingvoj Kreitaj de Virinoj" de Bernard Golden
<http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/planlingvoj-inaj.html>http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/planlingvoj-inaj.html 


En 1988, lau Golden, estis nur kvar planlingvoj 
kreitaj de virinoj. En mia postnoto, mi mencias 
ke la situacio estas malsama nun, kun relative 
popularaj artefaritaj lingvoj de virinoj, 
<http://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokipono>Toki Pona 
kaj <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1adan>L?adan (feminisma lingvo).

Pri Homographie (Vieno, 1831),de la pseudonima 
Lady Sophie Scott, Golden mencias, ke la lingvo 
"estis kreita por servi al la afero de virina 
emancipig^o." Mankas pluaj detaloj. Estus utile 
lerni plu, kaj tio apartenas al la ideologia kaj 
politika historio de artefaritaj lingvoj.
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